Poker Tracker question

[Kev7554]

I Have 10000 hands played at party 25 no limit. How do I use the stats to find leaks. Also does anyone have a good set of Autorate rules for the no limit game. Thanks in advance.

[Brock Landers]

I've been trying to get the autorate numbers for nolimit for a while, to no avail. I play $100 NL Party 6 max and can't seem to get any help with the #'s. Part of this may be because, unlike limit, in NL there is a wider variety of profitable styles. For example, if you have a VP$IP of 55% in limit, it's almost impossible to be profitable. Wheres in NL, it's very possible (at least 6 handed).

I still would like to hear if anyone esle has attempted to come up with any numbers. I usually just compare other player's numbers to mine and then make the adjustments (tighter than me, raises more than me, loses more showdowns than me, etc.).

Sorry I couldn't help more.

[Richie Rich]

First off, you can't draw any real conclusions with only a 10k hand sample under your belt. Wait until you have at least 25k hands to work with, then you can make a few assessments.

In general, your biggest winning hands should be the obvious: AA, KK, QQ, JJ, and AKs. Don't be surprised to see a couple of other mediocre hands -- like suited connectors or ATs -- come up as "big winners" in such a small sample. If you've been playing your pocket pairs correctly, you should also be showing a profit with those hands, as well.

"Surprisingly", my biggest losing hand is AKo...even though I'm fully aware that hands like TPTK generally doesn't win big pots, I've gotten pretty unlucky with that hand thus far. But that doesn't mean I'm going to fold Big Slick the next time I get it. Instead, my results just show that I should play AKo a little more cautiously than I have in the past.

If you go to your previous hands, you'll be able to sort out your biggest wins from your biggest losses. Replay those hands. Identify the tricky moves that you've made...or the misreads that you should've seen. Are you taking advantage of your position at the table? If so, then your net profit for Button and CO should be higher than UTG & UTG+1. In addition to being able to track your opponents, the other HUGE benefit of PokerTracker is being able to review your game to identify leaks.

Good luck.

[Wayfare]

10k hands is a lot of hands, and you can find leaks very easily: go in and see where you went in behind, and whether you would do anything differently next time.

Looking for trouble hands which are negative when they shouldn't be is also very helpful.

I submit once and for all that these people who say you need 50k hands or whatever in order to even know you are beating the game may be right in a mathematical sense, but are wrong in a practical sense. I haven't played nearly that many hands at either 25 or 50 and know for sure I am beating the game. Why? Because I never go in behind -- it's that simple. You shouldn't let any number of hands cripple your ability to look for improvment.

[Shuckin n Drivin]

I agree with Wayfare.It seems like Richie Rich needs to concentrate more on his job and less on poker. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Zag]

I'll agree with Wayfare that you have enough data to be worth looking at. What you don't have enough data for is to start drawing conclusions without looking at the actual hands. For instance, you might look at the data and discover that Q9s is a huge money-winner for you. This doesn't mean that you should start raising preflop with it, it more likely means that you happened to pick it up in the big blind a couple of times and got very lucky. You could look at the one or two hands in which some hand like this won a lot of money, and realize that they were freaks.

You actually need a huge number of hands, like half a million, before you get all of the truly awful hands down into the money losing column where they belong. This is because you always fold them preflop, so they only lose actual dollars if they were a blind. At least one of the complete turkey hands picked up a big pot some time on a free play, and it takes a long, long time to blind off all that money (with that hand).

The most interesting and valuable thing to look for is hands that you feel should be money winners which are showing a significant loss. Then, you still have to study the hands before you draw conclusions. Were you ahead when the money went in? If so, ignore that one as an anomaly. If you were putting money in when you were already behind, this is where you (probably) have something to learn.

[Richie Rich]

[ QUOTE ]
10k hands is a lot of hands, and you can find leaks very easily:

[/ QUOTE ]
10k is NOT a lot of hands. Most 2+2'ers can put up 10k hands in less than a month, easy. Are you saying that someone can determine if they're a winning player or losing player "over the long run" in that short a time?


[ QUOTE ]
I submit once and for all that these people who say you need 50k hands or whatever in order to even know you are beating the game may be right in a mathematical sense, but are wrong in a practical sense.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you should be able to decipher whether you're a winning or losing player before the 50k hand mark. But 10k won't give you any kind of reliable read. If that's all you have under your belt, then it's not surprising to see hands like 86o and A9o showing a profit in the short-term...in the long-term, those aren't profitable hands.


On top of it all, our hero accumulated these hands at the Party NL25 tables. Do you really think those tables can teach you how to become a good, smart & tricky poker player? I think most would agree Party NL25 games are more-or-less "training grounds" for the next level.

[Richie Rich]

I have to give you credit for something...most people can't drive and type at the same time. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[fimbulwinter]

I hate this "you need a billionty hands to be a winner" crap that gets spewed all over the boards. look at your play; if you're making skalansky dollars, you're making real dollars long term.

oh yeah, you dont need any more than 10K hands to get a good figure of your winrate and you need WAY more than 50K hands to get accurate numbers for individual hands. the sample size you'd need to know if you're playing Q4o profitably, for example, is so insanely large that discussion about collecting that number of hands is nothing but solipsism.

fim

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
"I hate this "you need a billionty hands to be a winner" crap that gets spewed all over the boards. look at your play; if you're making skalansky dollars, you're making real dollars long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

this isnt necessarily true. you can be a total monkey and make a ton of sklansky dollars by accident over thousands of hands.