Problem with 99-JJ, especially at lower stakes.

[mythrilfox]

Everytime I play in home games, I'll usually raise with these from mid-late position... even if overs hit on the flop you can usually buy it enough to make bluffing a profitable play since the PF raise drove most people out. However, online... I find myself getting called by A4 or A5 when I raise to 5x BB with TT. Here's a quick breakdown...

- If you raise, you either fold everybody out and win a fairly small pot, or you get 2-3 callers, sometimes as many as 4, depending on raise (I usually aim for 4-5xBB here). If overcards flopped, you're probably [censored], seeing as if they called $2.50 preflop, they will certainly call you all the way down with TP [censored] kicker. If undercards flop, you'll usually pick up a decent sized pot right then and there, but there's the added risk of running into a higher pocket pair and going broke more often than not. Most of the time an overcard (or two) will hit when you hold a mid pocket pair. Seems like you get the short end of the deal with a raise.

-If you limp, you're really playing for a set. I used to say I would limp and play an undercard flop aggressively, hoping to get called by someone with TPTK, but then I realized (since there was no PF raise) that the odds of someone having twopair/trips/straight are really too high to go/call an all-in, and you'll probably go broke for a cashin before you earn a cashin.

I just don't know how to play them on PartyPoker low stakes ... people give flop bets very little respect. JJ I will probably put a notch above the others, but generally I play the pretty 99-TT for a set, which I don't much like doing. Anyone have any helpful suggestions?

[BlueBear]

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Everytime I play in home games, I'll usually raise with these from mid-late position... even if overs hit on the flop you can usually buy it enough to make bluffing a profitable play since the PF raise drove most people out.

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Boy, you must be playing in one reallllll tough and tight home game.

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-If you limp, you're really playing for a set. I used to say I would limp and play an undercard flop aggressively, hoping to get called by someone with TPTK, but then I realized (since there was no PF raise) that the odds of someone having twopair/trips/straight are really too high to go/call an all-in, and you'll probably go broke for a cashin before you earn a cashin.

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You need to be very careful in committing all your chips in a tiny under-card flop, especially if you're out of position. Generally, I will simply bet the pot at my first oppurtunity to take it down straight away and will apply the brakes if there are callers.

It's all about position generally. Your raising standards can be more liberal in the later positions. I tend to limp 22-JJ in early position unless there are some pretty unusual circumstances (eg. the table is ultra tight, so I'll tend to mix it up by raising higher pairs)

[Zag]

I will extend your range of middle pairs to include 88. I find it plays more like TT than like 66, though it is really a spectrum.

I will call a small raise with these, if I have position on the raiser or we are both deep and he is aggressive. (That is, if I have already limped and he raises, I will still call the raise if I can count on him being aggressive. This means I will be able to count on being able to check-raise if I want to.) I will generally fold them to a pot raise, unless I have strong control (and position) on the raiser.

I will usually limp with these from most positions, but sometimes raise -- JJ and TT raise more than the others. In later positions, if everyone has folded to me, the chance of a raise goes up.

On the cutoff, even if there are two or three limpers, I am very likely to raise. Note that I raise on the cutoff more than in any other position, in the hopes of buying the button. (Again, this is more likely with TT/JJ, but, depending on the limpers so far, I am still up around 35-40% raise with 88, in this case. I am looking for limpers who are good players -- not calling stations, who see a lot of flops but will fold anything less than TPGK postflop.)

On the button, I will likely raise if there is only one limper, but just limp if there are more. Again, this is not 100%, and depends heavily on who the limper is, on my image, the table image, etc. Also, as we get more short-handed, I am more likely to raise, but in a shorthanded game, I raise a lot.

An important distinction with small to medium pairs is the stack size. On Party, where stacks are only 50 BBs, you generally can't afford to call a pot-sized raise with them, unless you and the raiser are both over the buy-in or unless there are other customers coming along. (However, you can crush the idiots who make the minimum raise.) But you can usually afford to put the raise in yourself, as long as this gives you control of the table. If there are any real maniacs and/or any "scary calling stations" at the table tend to limp more and wait for a hand you'll feel comfortable making and calling raises with.

Re stack size: In a home game, where stacks are likely deeper (100+ BBs) you can call a full pot-sized raise preflop, and even reraise with them occasionally, if you think the raiser is getting too big for his britches.

[Justin A]

It all depends on what your position is and what has happened in front of you. You want to play these hands against one opponent or many. If you're in against many, you want to get in cheap and play for the set.

So if you're in LP and there's a few limpers, just limp behind. If you're in LP and it's folded to you, raise and either pick up the blinds or play against one or two players.

In EP and usually MP it's probably a good idea to limp in. You're in a very tough spot if you raise and are called by a player behind you with position on future betting rounds.

Justin A

[LokiV]

I stopped reading after this:

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However, online... I find myself getting called by A4 or A5 when I raise to 5x BB with TT. Here's a quick breakdown...

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I feel real bad for you. Real bad. Real real bad.

I raise them preflop and still play them for a set since I imagine that's where your argument is going. The more people willing to call preflop raises in your game the better, there simply can't be that many good hands dealt per round so your competition is weak and loose.

Post hands where you're confused, not railing about people calling raises w/ ace/5. Where do you think all of your winning comes from?

[Wayfare]

This is entirely stack-size dependent. With deep stacks 99-JJ in raised pots are likely to make middle and top set, which can get in for a lot of money vs. overpair, flopped top two / lower set, etc.

I would say that online, your ability to fold out a top pair is very limited. The stacks are also very short. You should be blasting these for 6x bb at the 25's and 50's, and bet the pot if checked to unless there is an ace. Many people will call with AQ or AJ as well as AK, and I blast away with almost all flops that aren't A-high.

Also, I would say that if someone leads into you, you should release unless the top card is like a ten or you flop an overpair.

Do not raise 99-JJ out of position, because they are extremely difficult to play +EV after the flop and out of position.