AQs, how many mistakes?

Fianchetto · #1 10-20-2004, 12:18 PM

I was new to the table so had no reads at the time. I initially suspected the CO to be a decent player, but after several orbits of play I would be proven wrong. He was willing to call many bets preflop with just about any type of hand.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls.

Preflop was about the only street I actually felt good about.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Now if the CO was raising the flop with a big club, I don't want him taking a free card on the turn. Also, if he has a weak ace I charge him by betting, and I wouldn't completely hate him raising again if it knocks out the BB who may have had a weak club draw. So I bet the turn.

Turn: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, CO raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (11 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

I'm going to call a bet on the end anyway, so I decided to bet. I doubt that a better hand will fold, but I may get a call from weaker hands that would have checked it through. Oops he raised, worse yet I call. Did I totally misapply the Clark four flush theorem here?

Final Pot: 15 BB
Main Pot: 15 BB, between Hero and CO.

etizzle · #2 10-20-2004, 03:20 PM

doesnt his theorem involve folding to a raise? I forget.

CanKid · #3 10-20-2004, 03:27 PM

CO = K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Tx ?

Fianchetto · #4 10-21-2004, 01:39 PM

The CO had J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for the flopped flush.

Gotta love Party, but I'm curious what people think of leading into him again on the turn and on the river after he has raised me.

Emoney · #5 10-21-2004, 05:14 PM

i think stop and go was the right play. the river screwed you. get away from the raise on the end.

GuyOnTilt · #6 10-21-2004, 06:57 PM

Did I totally misapply the Clark four flush theorem here?

The statement that Clark made about rivered 4-flushes was true. Applying it to this hand is stupid.

GoT

Steve Giufre · #7 10-21-2004, 07:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The CO had J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for the flopped flush.

Gotta love Party, but I'm curious what people think of leading into him again on the turn and on the river after he has raised me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just read the results but even before I peeked I was hating the turn play. I understand you thinking that you likely have the best hand, and didnt want him to take a free one on the turn. But after you bet and get popped, you cant beat a thing. You have now shown strength on three streets in a row, and you got raised. It's time to throw your hand away. But before you bet the turn, if you think he is the type who may raise you with a worse hand, I think you need to check call. Agaist tricky types who are capable of making that play betting and folding to a raise is too exploitable there.

On the river GOT is right, this just isnt the time to be leading at the 4 flush. I think you need to ask yourself if he's going to fold a worse hand with this many bets in the pot. He will pay it off with three tens. Also, there a lot of situations where you might get called by a worse hand even when the four flush has hit. This is defintely not one of those times either.

Fianchetto · #8 10-21-2004, 08:02 PM

Steve, thanks for the response, it sounds like the turn was the time to get away from this hand.

Fianchetto · #9 10-21-2004, 08:09 PM

<ul type="square"> [*]Cost of purchasing HPFAP, TOP and SSH: $75
[*]Getting beat up in the Party $15-$30 game: $900
[*]Having GuyOnTilt call you stupid: Priceless!
[/list]
Seriously though, how the F*!# does that help me, or anyone? I know the hand was not well played, that is why I posted it asking about the mistakes. I don't have years of playing experience, but I'm trying to get better in these situations by understanding WHY it is stupid.

kirbyatihop · #10 10-21-2004, 09:40 PM

If this hand was played right when you entered the table then you were horribly out drawn and made a bad bet on the river aand a marginal one on the turn but if you have been sitting there and realized this guy will play anything i think you did the right play until the lead in on the river because [censored] knows what this guy has