Taking beats...but continuing to play..

[Jord4n]

I've been playing poker (hold em') for the past 4-5 months a very good amount, and spent most of the summer learning the game by losing. Of course, as with most beginners, I would occasionally win, or break even over a few weeks, but more than most, I would end up having to redeposit at my poker site of choice.

Not until recently did I start winning consistently. I havn't made a lot by any means, but I now consider myself a winning player and despite still being quite new to the game, I feel like I have a pretty solid understanding of the game, and have a good ability in playing with other players of various skill.

My question is this. I recently just took my online bankroll at UB from $200 to $600 in about 25-30 hours of playing time. I understand my hourly rate probably isn't as great as it could be, but I usually stick to playing one table at a time, espicially if I'm playing no limit, and as usual with no limit ring play, sometimes the swings hurt, sometimes they love. Anyways, I usually play $20 sit n go's, or .50 - 1, 1 - 2 NL and make my money there.

I ran into a bit of a bad luck spurt today. Playing NL 1-2 I ran into AA five times, got beat by a boat on more than three other occasions, and had set over set beat (which I think I would have gotten away from earlier, but I didn't want to believe I was beat once again..foolishness).

I know over the course of playing, these things happen, and it is just unfortunate to have them seem to happen all so quickly in one session. In no way is this post intentioned as a "feel bad for me and my bad beat(s) post", but rather how do you go about dealing with the unfortunate losses? I'm not sure if I'm wording it right...bleh

I have become pretty good at not tilting my play (as I used to tilt easily when I considerd myself a beginner) by playing weak hands because of a few beats, but I do sometimes feel like I should just stop playing, yet I continue to play. And no, I don't mean in the way that, "Oh I have to play to get my money back." But for example tonight, instead of stopping and taking time off and just cooling down, I decided to keep playing with my measly $200 I had left, and over time I ended back up to $400, (which is a fine number by me and I plan to build back up the same way I did earlier this month) but I still almost feel like I would have shown better discipline by NOT continuing to play.

I'm just curious to hear from more experienced players about this type of psychology in the game. Knowing when to stop and how to...make yourself stop playing when things are going bad.

Perhaps that is somewhat of a vice I am coming to notice, that I almost couldn't step away from playing tonight. Perhaps it was anger, or just wanting to prove to myself that bad luck can't run forever...bleh...I dunno...any input is appreciated, short of flaming. And if nothing can be said to this that is of any value..my bad...just kinda writing out some thoughts.

Thanks,

- Jordan

ps- sorry if this post is somewhat unorganized and/or mispelled in certain areas. Pulled an all nighter and regret it already.

[Lawrence Ng]

To err is human.

The game of poker is a lot like boxing. You go in, you are confident, you are aggressive and you know you can take your opponent down. Or at least think you can. On paper you are the favorite, your opponent is the underdog.

Throughout the bouts, Your gonna land a lot of blows, but your gonna receive some yourself. Neither you nor your opponent is going to leave unscaithed.

I've often found that in boxing mathces, though the physical element of the match is very important that the pyschological and mental aspect is equally as important. Learning more about how and why your opponents fight the way they do helps you develop your game plan.

It sounds to me like you don't know why your opponents play the way they do. And as a result, you don't understand yourself well enough thus enabling the tilt to set in.

No matter how great any player is, they are prone to symptoms of taking beat after beat. It is draining, it is frustrating and it is natural to feel dissapointed.

It often much easier said, as in these forums, to get off the table or leave when the tilt factor starts to set in, but it's hard to do sometimes especially when the game is good.

So don't berate yourself too hard, I think you realize well enough in this post what you do need to know. Give yourself more time and you will be able to apply it more readily to the games you play.

[Sidekick]

I'll chip in here with my $0.02.

In some ways what you are asking is a very tricky question. Should you have gotten up from the table here in this situation? If you are playing better than your opponents AND you aren't letting the fact that you have taken some nasty beats put you on tilt, then the answer is no you should not get up and leave the table.

On the other hand, if your opponents are outplaying you, or the beats are affecting how you play your game or you are being adversely affected in some way mentally (e.g. frustration, anger, despair, etc.), then you should by all means leave the table immediately and take a break or find a table where YOU are the favorite through superior play.

I'll chip in a little extra as well (even though you weren't asking this in your post). If your bankroll is only $200 (until very recently) and you have been playing $20 SnG tournaments, then I would say that you are playing above your bankroll. For SnGs the most common bankroll advice I've seen on these boards seems to be about 25 times the SnG buy in. Even winning players are going to experience SnG losing streaks of 10+ tournaments from time to time.

Hope this helps answer your question.

[Jord4n]

Well, first, about the Sit N Go's. I played $10 only until I was up around $400, then played in $20 ones (cashing normally). One night I just felt like gambling (very dumb) and played in a 6 handed $100, but I won that...but I agree...playing outside the bankroll gets everyone in trouble...so I havn't done that since (but it was fun).

I don't think I was outplayed. I was out lucked in that short amount of time that almost makes you feel like you were outplayed. It's very frustrating to have AK AQ and AT go up against AA as I'm sure you know, and have had before (not gonna mention other examples). Espicially in no limit and you're trapped and normally takes a street or two (or three [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) to figure out what is going on. However, once in that situation, I think it takes more skill to find the fold button and get away (actually had to make another annoying lay down when, on a steal raise, I raised with Q2, 3 to the flop, I hit two pair, bet out, all call, and then forced with an all in decision on the turn. Easy fold considering, but I somehow ran into AA again! - he had a set). But I was proud I got away from the hand (although I picked a horrid time to try a steal raise)...so it was a minor victory.

--
On the other hand, if your opponents are outplaying you, or the beats are affecting how you play your game or you are being adversely affected in some way mentally (e.g. frustration, anger, despair, etc.), then you should by all means leave the table immediately and take a break or find a table where YOU are the favorite through superior play

I definately had the feelings in bold above, but as I said, it was weird cuz I didn't feel like I was on tilt, but I didn't feel like I should be playing, yet I continued to, and didn't stop the entire night. I dunno..thanks for your input advice...I think i will find the bed here soon now.

- Jordan

[JimRivett]

I've been playing poker (hold em') for the past 4-5 months

Please don't take offense to this, however 4-5 months is really not long enough to draw very many, if any conclusions, about your game or poker in general. I think that most players new to the game lose at first, and most of them question why or how it happens, the fact is, there are so many scenarioes in poker, (and hold'em in particular), and it can be difficult to accept the outcome of some of them.

My thinking is that you should only play if you are enjoying yourself, what's the use of being uphappy and frustrated while engaging in your hobby or pasttime?

Hope this helps and good luck.

Regards, Jim

[Jord4n]

I have been enjoying myself, thoroughly.

I think one of the main reasons I started playing was because it gave me a sense of competition. I played sports in highschool, but come college, I decided to go to a DI school and not play soccer, so I lost a pretty big part of my main sense of competition there. Poker in general has given me something that I have been setting goals at, and generally working hard at getting better.

I agree, 4-5 months is not long at all, and to anyone that doesn't know me, I wouldn't try and put it past them that I am a great player. I know my strengths, and I'm working on my weaknesses, but I'll be damned if I put all my work into this game and am still the same player as when I started, because I'm not.

I'm a college student and play this game for two reasons.

1, As a said, I enjoy the competition, I enjoy using my brain, I like solving puzzles, and to me, poker seems like a big puzzle that you put together over a long period of time. I just love playing, and having the sense of being good at something and all that goes with it. I guess I don't get that from much else in my life at this time.

2, For money. I don't have a job at college, and I don't have a car to take me to find off campus jobs, so I decided at the beginning of the school year, I would try to treat poker as somewhat as a part time job and see how that went. Again, the end of the summer was really when I started to get comfortable playing the game, and had a much better understanding of the game and how to play it. I have run my bankroll just under 1k, which to me is a pretty good deal of money, espicially for just playing the last few months, and I am pleased to see myself turning in positive results consistently.

I'm not trying to brag or whatever about my skill, cause I do have holes in my game, but I know I'm always working at them, I guess the point of my original post, was more or less asking what seasoned players did when the bad (or even not bad) beats kept coming. I've had sessions like this before, it definately wasn't a first time experience, and I expect it time to time, but what bothered me (and maybe I didn't explain this well earlier) was that I just kept playing.

I believe I would have been better off emotionally if I just stepped away from the game, even though as I said, I brought my bankroll back up to $400, but I didn't step away and just continued to play, almost against my conscience.

Perhaps it just seemed like a lack of discipline I saw in myself and I felt like rambling about it, I don't know. Argh, this must seem so vague, so maybe I should just stop, but discipline seems to be very important and I think I'm just frustrated that I completely lacked any discipline last night. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, or not making much sense. It really wasn't a big deal, and I really will just try to "discipline" myself better (so vague), I think I'm just thinking outloud and hoping someone will give some brilliant advice at becoming a better disciplined individual, cause the more I think about it, it seems to be a general character flaw of mine as well, which kinda sucks to think about and admit to.

I think I'm finished with this post now, haha, thanks for comments. Good luck at the tables.

- Jordan

finally got some rest, writing seems so much easier now.

Your boxing analogy brings back memories.

When I was in college, we were required to take rudimentary boxing lessons. The coach paired us up with a sparring partner of similar size and ability, with whom we would spar throughout the series of lessons/sparring matches. The only grade to be awarded would be on the final session, when we "put it all together".

During the preliminary sessions I gave my partner a black eye in one session, a bloody nose in another session, and a cut lip in yet another. He never touched me.

During the final (graded) session, I got the black eye, cut lip and bloody nose all at once, and couldn't touch him.

Poker is like that. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]