Am I a fish for this hand?

DontRaisePlz · #1 03-09-2005, 01:48 AM

PokerStars 1.00/2.00 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, MP calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG raises, MP 3-bets, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG caps, MP calls, Hero calls.

River: (20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 26 BB

First hand

JohnnyHumongous · #2 03-09-2005, 02:22 AM

Looks fine. With the "big" draws (open-ended and 4-flush) you should generally not fold before the river unless it is clear that you are beaten and/or dominated even if you hit, or perhaps if it was capped before coming to you on the turn (depending on the pot's size). This looks fine to me, especially considering the fact that you can checkraise the river for some extra implied odds.

witeknite · #3 03-09-2005, 03:16 AM

Technically if you knew that the turn would be capped your immediate odds of 16:4 wouldn't be enough to call since you need 19:4 with an OESD. When you call the first one though, you have no way of knowing this will happen. When it comes back to you raised and 3-bet, a cap does becomes possible. At this point, if it's capped you are getting 17:3 which is plenty. Also, if you add in the implied odds the calls become more correct.

WiteKnite

TStoneMBD · #4 03-09-2005, 03:19 AM

you played it fine. i prefer 3betting this flop for cool points though, but thats just my style.

7ontheline · #5 03-09-2005, 03:53 AM

I agree with your play. Question for Tstone - do you think your pot equity is good enough to 3-bet the flop for value, given your position and the fact that you only have an OESD? (no overcards, no backdoor anything, no fold equity) When my draw is decent but I have absolutely no chance of winning unless I hit it and I'm in early postion, I'm not always sure how to play - if you bet out, like our hero did here, you get more money in the pot but if it starts getting capped back at you you are reducing your own pot odds.

MrBig30 · #6 03-09-2005, 04:18 AM

I agree with TStone, 3 betting flop with 4 players in it looks like a good idea. Should make you a little extra $$$ although not much.

TStoneMBD · #7 03-09-2005, 05:03 AM

you have 3 other players in the pot on a 2:1 draw. $$.

not only is it a good value raise, but playing aggressive like this gets you more action later on.

naphand · #8 03-09-2005, 05:23 AM

Absolutely, the only question to consider is whether by betting/raising early you are going to knock out your customers before the big streets. Betting into 3 players and seeing 2 folds is unpleasant, even 1 fold makes the play neutral EV. Although some disguise is achieved with straight draws, most players are familiar with raising flush draws, perhaps not at $1/$2 but certainly higher, and an aggressive player will bet again on the Turn with TP or anything decent if he suspects you are raising for value/free card. The reverse of this is when the board is 2-suited and you have TP you can raise the sucka again on the Turn when he SNGs you.

Ask yourself when playing this kind of hand:
(i) Am I drawing to the nuts or likely nuts?
(ii) Are there any redraws against me (particularly flush)?
(iii) Can I expect calls if I raise, or will I get folds?

The last you will only be better able to judge when you have reads on players at the table, but the other two are purely board-based. And no this is not a fish play, and while it is might uncomfortable to call all those BB on the Turn, you made no mistakes, great CR on the River. This is a card that makes a better straight (for QJ) so you probably do not want to cap this if your CR gets 3-bet by a player who has been calling along. On the other hand the A is such an obvious 2-pair card you probably should just go ahead and cap, you will be good the large majority of the time.

stir · #9 03-09-2005, 02:32 PM

Excellent post = Will improve my game. My only comment based on ~ 20K of $1/2 6 max is if you c/r this hand for value at $1/2, on the flop from sb or BB, you will not lose 90% of players. So many, many, calling stations.