Holding on too long?

[junkmail3]

This is just a general question: How long do you hold onto raised hands that don't hit, or provide back door hands?

Example:

A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Raise pre flop (low limit Party) Hero raises.

5 to the flop

Flop: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB bets.

What if the T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] was a K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Hero raises.

5 players

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

What if the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] was A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?

I think I've gone too far, trying to 'protect' the hands I've raised preflop, counting on overcards or backdoors, and just bleed chips doing that. How valuable are these hands after flops that miss?

thanks.

[Louie Landale]

Try changing your perspective. Instead of thinking that "I'm a favorite to win with my Premium hand" you should be thinking "I'm a favorite to flop something I like". Another technical way is this: most premium hands that end up winning come from favorable flops; few premium hands that end up winning come from unfavorable flops.

So, if you raise and get an unfavorable flop, you no longer have a "premium" hand; you have at best a "hopefull" hand.

Realistically you need to consider: is it possible I actually HAVE the best hand even if I missed? Can I reasonably get a free river card? Can I make some cash if I hit? If I play this one (marginally) assertive, will it increase the action I get next time when I really have something? Is that good? Can I steal from someone with a small pair? Is it reasonable that someone flopped thier kicker which means I now only have 3 outs?

The presense of a back-door flush draw is quite a bit better than most folks presume. It may be only "worth" 1.5 outs, but snagging your draw also preserves your over-card outs that can and often will win when you hit on the river (wherease you wouldn't call the turn bet without the 4-flush). Also, insisting on a 3-flush randomizes your play and keeps you from routinely calling is many hopeless over-card situations.

There is no shame in raising, then checking and folding. I'm the only one I know who routinely raises PF, and then is the only one who CANNOT invest even one bet on the flop.

- Louie

[DiamondDave]

Some people make fun of "fit or fold" but it works really well in loose, passive games.

[CrisBrown]

Hi junkmail,

Someone once said something in passing at a table that really impressed me. The advantage of a premium hand is that it's easier to know when a flop has helped you. That is, if you hit a flop on a premium starting hand, you're more likely to have flopped a hand that you can bet with confidence. But without help on the flop, even AA is just one pair.

Poker is all about evaluating situations, and the situation changes as each card comes off. And yes, if you can't assess and adapt to that changed situation, if you are prone to "marry a hand," you will bleed a lot of money.

Cris