How do I get enough action at NL25?

Floyd Moseby · #1 09-12-2004, 11:01 PM

I've been playing NL25 on Party as a 2nd table while I play my $20+$2 SNG's. I've learned to stay away from marginal hands and to avoid slow playing. However, the problem I'm having now is that when I do come out betting PF with a decent hand, I more often than not just scoop the blinds. Typically, if I'm holding AA-QQ and there's a few limpers for $0.50 in front of me, I'll bet out $3.00. I hardly ever get called. Well, after about two hours of this, I get the following hand and decide to try to mix it up:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (10 handed)

CO ($25.70)
Button ($35.30)
SB ($24)
Hero ($32.45)
UTG ($42.05)
UTG+1 ($23.75)
UTG+2 ($11.70)
MP1 ($6.75)
MP2 ($11.60)
MP3 ($29.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.50, Button folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $1, CO calls $0.50, SB folds.

Flop: ($2.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, CO calls $5.

Turn: ($12.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, CO calls $5.

River: ($22.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $5, Hero calls $5.

Final Pot: $32.50
Main Pot: $32.50, between CO and Hero. > Pot won by CO ($32.50).

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac Ad (one pair, aces).
CO has 6s 7s (straight, seven high).
Outcome: CO wins $32.50. 

There's one obvious mistake here, but I'll let you guys point it out to me and others if you see them.

My typical NL25 sessions have me winning a handful of small pots without having to showdown, and then losing a big chunk with a 2nd best type hand. I'm trying REAL hard to fight off the monster-under-the-bed syndrome so I don't get too weak. If any of your have gone through similar stretches (and I know I'm being vague), maybe let me know what changed or what you did differently, in general.

Thanks in advance,

Avoid The Floyd

BobboFitos · #2 09-12-2004, 11:08 PM

There's one obvious mistake here, but I'll let you guys point it out to me and others if you see them.

You didn't bet enough on the turn... That's pretty clear...
Obviously, people will jump on you for the min raise preflop, as it's not good, as well; why let SCs stick around?

Your opponent had a sick draw, I'm surprised he didn't play back on the flop.

"If you raised more preflop you wouldn't have been put in this position..." Yadda yadda...

Betting x2 pot on the flop is strong, why back off and only bet 1/3ish pot on the turn? Your opponent technically played every street correctly, albeit passively, and was nice by only betting 5 on the river.

Floyd Moseby · #3 09-12-2004, 11:19 PM

Well the reason I only mini-raised PF was because just about every other strong bet I was making PF was just getting folded to. I think I only bet $5 on the turn because I expected to be re-raised with a set, and thus I could have dropped out there.

The4thFilm · #4 09-12-2004, 11:21 PM

minraising?

fimbulwinter · #5 09-12-2004, 11:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There's one obvious mistake here, but I'll let you guys point it out to me and others if you see them.

My typical NL25 sessions have me winning a handful of small pots without having to showdown, and then losing a big chunk with a 2nd best type hand. I'm trying REAL hard to fight off the monster-under-the-bed syndrome so I don't get too weak. If any of your have gone through similar stretches (and I know I'm being vague), maybe let me know what changed or what you did differently, in general.

Thanks in advance,

Avoid The Floyd

[/ QUOTE ]

to avoid euphemism, there are quite a few errors in this hand, however I'd like to give you some more general advice which will help you with your "win small pots, lose big ones" syndrome.

First off an observation: very good NL players always show down the best (even if unlikely) hand in big pots and pick up a ton of small pots as well, but in general don't win too many medium sized pots as they fold when they're beat and take your stack when they're not. this is what you should be aiming for.

The kind of result you're experiencing is typical of a NL cash player who is playing positionally like a limit player. There are many changes in NL, two of the most important are the huge difference in value between premium NL hands (pairs, suited aces, AK, AQs, and suited connectors) and marginal NL hands, which, long run, are nearly worthless (QTo KJo A9o Qxs etc.). moreover, buy messing up position, you can turn a hugely profitable hand like Axs into a loser by playing it under the wrong conditions (without many others in the pot) or in the wrong position (early/middle).

Try this: raise any premium hand you wish to play like big aces, KQs, PP>TT to 6xBB every time. minraising is almost never the right answer, ever. I've played probably 30K hands and i can say that maybe 15 times i've had the conditions to properly minraise preflop (and they're not what you think). IF you're not raising 6xBB, limp. play PP's from all positions, big aces from MP and LP and suited connectors, Axs and other big unpairied hands from LP. this sounds tight, but it's an easy way to start out a winner.

as for betting, don't get fancy; if you plan to bet, bet pot, bluff, semi bluff or value bet, pretend you're playing potlimit (unless you're raised into hard holding the nuts/AA preflop of course [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

The mental sea change that must go on within you now is this: 33 is now more valuble than AJo. you are now looking for implied odds and you are looking for them in late position. be the guy who is stacking the guy who makes the mistake of minraising preflop, not the guy who gets stacked.

read these forums and you'll realize the changes that your play needs; whenever you feel the cards have turned against you, that is the best time to improve your game.

fim

jjb108 · #6 09-13-2004, 01:25 AM

In general, I win a lot of small pots peppered with the occasional stack winners (and losers...I can't seem to believe they have trips and my TPTK is no good). I also raise alot preflop. After awhile, people can't tell if you're bluffing or have AA/KK. I'm doing well over the last 2 months. Earlier play with less pot size bets less preflop raises resulted in my losing money.

Cannes · #7 09-13-2004, 05:54 AM

Not much you could have done to win this hand after the flop.
Villain flopped open end straight + flush draw. He's the favorite in the hand against your overpair.
Although there are some things to consider. Obviously raise more preflop. Bet the pot on the turn if you have your opponent on a draw. Then you MUST charge him the max.
Giving the nature of his draw. He should actually have raised you on the flop.

unagi · #8 09-13-2004, 06:27 AM

to put it simply, you're not aggressive enough. the reason you win small pots is because you're not pumping them enough when you have the best hand, and you're losing big pots most likely because they're willing to pump it when they have the best hand. anyway, that's fairly judgemental and a huge assumption based solely on this post, so i could be totally off. it's just a guess at a possible reason, and hopefully constructive criticism (although if you knew exactly what his cards were on the flop, of course you would want to play it slowly - and you actually got away from this hand relatively cheaply).

hectorjelly · #9 09-13-2004, 11:12 AM

If you think you're not getting enough action, then you need to change your image. From time to time raise in LP with suited connectors or a small pair, try and take it down with a bet on the flop and show your no pair. You are risking very little to do this (and from time to time you will flop a disguised monster), and should help you to get some action when you get AA/KK.

GimmeDaWatch · #10 09-13-2004, 11:28 AM

The 10 person ring games have tightened up considerably since they opened the 6-max. Id try those, youre sure to get more action.