Some thoughts on Backgammon and poker

[FrankLu99]

A few weeks ago I came across a backgammon book, "backgammon for serious players" at my local Barnes and Nobles. The author was some well known backgammon pro, Bill Robertie. Being a backgammon newbie I decided to peruse through the book to see if I could pick up on any strategy. The book basically covered some key tournament games in the backgammon world.

Usually in backgammon I play very conservative, hoping that my opponent will make a big mistake or get a horrible roll so I can jump all over it. (That could be similar to my poker strategy - who knows)

I read through the intro and through the first game analysis and discovered how far off my basic strategy was from professional tournament play. Robertie explained and emphasized how top gammon players would take risks early in the game to try to build position over their opponents (usually by trying to setup key anchors or points but exposing their pieces to be hit).

It seems like in poker Gus Hansen opens himself up in order to gain a better position or to win key hands (if there is such a thing as a key hand).
I am just trying to make any type of connection between bg with poker and gus hansen with seemingly playing different.

comments? thoughts? is this post just useless or stupid?

On a scale of 1-10 how much do u covet his biceps?

[Trainwreck]

LOL, having had better biceps at some point then that, not much....

Gus is wreckless and sometimes it does well, there are plenty of tournaments during the year where GUS doesn't do well... we see only him from the DOING well perspective....

I say keep that in mind when a regular pro wins a big tourney and yet never heard from again or for awhile.... backers and OTHER tourney entries EAT winnings and sometimes ALL of them..... or other gambling leaks... So some of these guys ARE broke, and probably more than we know...

Gus had a banner year! But to expect it to last? I'm realistic....

>TW<

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
LOL, having had better biceps at some point then that, not much....

Gus is wreckless and sometimes it does well, there are plenty of tournaments during the year where GUS doesn't do well... we see only him from the DOING well perspective....

I say keep that in mind when a regular pro wins a big tourney and yet never heard from again or for awhile.... backers and OTHER tourney entries EAT winnings and sometimes ALL of them..... or other gambling leaks... So some of these guys ARE broke, and probably more than we know...

Gus had a banner year! But to expect it to last? I'm realistic....

>TW<

[/ QUOTE ]


It will last and let me tell you why. Gus plays tourneys not to cash, like most, but to win and the way he plays supports that intention. There was an article in CardPlayer a few issues ago about some dude that I and probably most of you never heard of that had CASHED in EVERY WPT ever. Now, that's quite an accomplishment, yet he has never made a final table (he may have made one, but busted out at 7th to miss the TV table).

Anyway, if you are playing a strategy to just cash, that's fine, if you are playing to win, then you should probably model your game more along the lines of the way Gus plays.

[FrankLu99]

If i remember correctly one of the themes in Robertie's BG book was that top players try to force their opponents to make lucky (improbable) rolls to win or take advantage of the situation.

Another theme was that attacking is a better strategy than being passive (capturing/knocking out pieces was better than not doing so in marginal situations)

[TStoneMBD]

i am a fairly decent backgammon player, however i havent played a game in at least a year. as silly as it is, i used to have an over 2.5k rating on pogo.com which is in the so called "master class". my father has played backgammon all his life and also had a master rating there. I consider him to be a much better player than I am because he always played a much more reckless style as suggested in the book. He would leave his pieces wide open and take extraordinary risks to gain an early lead. If the opponent started hitting his pieces, he would build blocks in the opponents base which actually gave him a significant lead while appearing to be way behind to a novice eye. I was never able to adapt this strategy as well as he could, because it would backfire on me. However, I was able to beat my father on a equal basis because I was a good enough player to avoid hitting too many pieces, and avoided his traps. He would have to play a much more straightforeword game against me because I was able to counter his strategies. Against a novice player the aforementioned tactic is much more useful. In the game of backgammon, reckless style can pay off because if your pieces are continually getting hit, you can gain game advantage by using the different tactic of building in their base.

Playing reckless in backgammon doesn't put you at a significant disadvantage against novice players because they don't have an appropriate countertactic. If there is any connection between the game of backgammon and poker this is clearly it. Against players that are not equipped with a good anti-gus strategy, his reckless play puts him at a great advantage, but doesnt backfire because novices dont know how to take advantage of the situation.

In the game of poker, it appears that when a player uses proper anti-gus strategy, gus uses an anti-anti-gus strategy which takes things to a whole new level of complexity which is not capable in backgammon.

I am not very good at game theory, but as a somewhat skilled backgammon player I thought I would bring a little insight into the discussion. Someone with game theory knowledge might be more suited to distinguish any relationships there are between both strategies to better understand these complex tactics that Gus Hansen uses.

PS, I never had any formal training in backgammon, nor read any books, and haven't played for any serious stakes. I just played it recreationally for fun so take my wisdom with a grain of salt.