Turn decision with QQ

CostaRicaBill · #1 09-06-2004, 11:24 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Nemesis (UTG+2) is tight aggressive. Do you guys call this down after being checkraised on the turn? Call river as well?

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 5 folds, UTG folds, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (8.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (6.16 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls.

River: (10.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.16 BB
Main Pot: 12.16 BB, between UTG+2 and Hero.

spamuell · #2 09-06-2004, 11:36 AM

Do you guys call this down after being checkraised on the turn? Call river as well?

Yeah. Sometimes he'll have 99, AA, KK and not have capped PF (with AA & KK) because he recognises you're reasonable aware of what's going on and he thinks he can make up the lost value post-flop.

Sometimes he'll have TT, JJ and be just being aggressive because he feels you'll pay him off with overcards for fear he's putting a move on you because he knows you can fold a hand.

Sometimes he'll have AK, AQ and be trying to stop you from splitting a pot with him or just randomly trying to outplay you because he's seen you fold post flop a lot and think you might fold here.

There's not that much point three betting because he'll call/cap with his better hands and fold the ones you beat whereas if you call he'll continue value betting his worse hand/bluffing.

Alobar · #3 09-06-2004, 11:40 AM

you cant very well fold. And raising him seems a bit much. Therefore calling him down is the logical conclusion

me454555 · #4 09-06-2004, 12:11 PM

Why can't you fold here? This is the way I might a set heads up for maximum value.

What is the range of hands you put you're opponent on? What does he think you have? Hes willing to bet into you on the flop, and then checkraise you after you raised him on the flop.

I think you're behind at this point and I don't htink you'll be good 25% of the time. I'd toss this to the turn c/r and move on.

Kluddeludde · #5 09-06-2004, 12:18 PM

This is an easy call down, I would even be inclined to raise the river or 3-bet the turn. I would really not like to be reraised there, though, so I probably just call down anyhow.

Consider UTG+2's holdings. He raised preflop after one caller. Possible holdings: AA-TT (possibly 99, unlikely though), AK, AQ, AJ, KQ. He failed to cap the flop, which would make AA-KK less likely.

His bet on the flop doesn't really tell you much, he could be trying to run you off two overcards.

His check-raise on the turn, however, really limits his holdings. He probably have an overpair to the board (or AKs, AQs, AJs, KQs of clubs), but since he failed to cap the flop, I would say his most likely holdings are JJ, TT or 99 (with the nines being less likely).

Hope it makes sense.

Kludde

Kluddeludde · #6 09-06-2004, 12:20 PM

There's not that much point three betting because he'll call/cap with his better hands and fold the ones you beat whereas if you call he'll continue value betting his worse hand/bluffing.

How about AKs, AQs, AJs, KQs of clubs. Clearly, a 3-bet in this situation would be correct.

Kludde

Alobar · #7 09-06-2004, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I think you're behind at this point and I don't htink you'll be good 25% of the time. I'd toss this to the turn c/r and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are very wrong here. First its only like 20% of the time you have to be right. 2nd he could be holding TT JJ QQ, getting tricky with AK (cuz he sees you fold on the turn all the time to check raises), yeah he might have the set or AA KK, but you will win often enough to show a profit here.

spamuell · #8 09-06-2004, 12:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about AKs, AQs, AJs, KQs of clubs. Clearly, a 3-bet in this situation would be correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it would. This is precisely four combinations of hands.

Kluddeludde · #9 09-06-2004, 12:30 PM

Yes, it is. You also claim that he would fold JJ or TT if 3-bet, which I think is incorrect. That is 12 more.

Kludde

CostaRicaBill · #10 09-06-2004, 12:48 PM

I favor folding after the turn checkraise, I don't really see how I can be ahead. I don't think he would make this play with only AK or a hand like TT or JJ. Maybe with AA or KK, but I ruled these out becuase he most likely would have capped with them preflop. Turns out he had 99.