I've lost my mind - Q7s on the button

[Barry]

15/30 Party. One of my favorite semi-maniacs is at the table and playing oodles of hands, so the rest of the table is getting loose too. There don't seem to be any real good players at the table

I have Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] on the button

4 limpers to me and I limp, SB completes, then the BB raises and we all call.

7 to the flop and 14 SB's

Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB bets, UTG calls folded to to CO who raises.

OK, I have a pair, an overcard, backdoor str8 and flush draws, and there's a freaking 18 SB's in the pot.

What to do, what to do?

[rory]

I usually just fold here without thinking about it much but I think calling is the right play. Even if it is capped back to you you will still have gotten > 5 to 1 on your call.

C'mon 7.

-rory

[PokerBabe(aka)]

Hi Barry,

There are those of us who still fold bottom pair and backdoor non-nut draws, but we are few and far between.

LGPG

Bab [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]e

[Analyst]

At first glance this looks pretty muckable, but . . .

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I have a pair, an overcard, backdoor str8 and flush draws, and there's a freaking 18 SB's in the pot.

What to do, what to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

Add those up, and getting at least 9:1, possibly 10:1, it really looks like you must call and see the turn. Worst case, as has been mentioned, is 5:1 if the BB raises and CO caps - not good, but not a complete disaster.

I probably wouldn't do this myself, but any chance that you could get a free card on the turn if you 3-bet here? It seems unlikely - in fact, the CO might cap here and bet the turn for the worst of all worlds - but if it worked then the extra SB investment could pay off.

[Barry]

[ QUOTE ]
but any chance that you could get a free card on the turn if you 3-bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm.....

Maybe your on to something here; remember he limped. If I 3-bet, what hand would he cap with? Probably only 77 or JT (and maybe not that). What about the other 3 left in the hand? SB has to call 3 cold and BB and UTG 2 cold. Could you get them to fold?

[Analyst]

For some reason, I'd thought that the CO was the maniac and likely to raise/cap even with a weak hand. If he'd only cap with 77 or JT, then the chance to clear out some or all of the other players and possibly get a free card makes 3-betting even more interesting.

Note that even if he has JT you're only a ~2.5:1 or so dog HU, so a flop cap isn't a disaster at all since you're getting 5:1. Against 77, it's pretty ugly - 10:1 against - but there are 9 ways he can have JT vs. only 1 way for 77.

[Barry]

Yeah, I forgot, the maniac folded on the flop and wasn't the CO, but he presence sure influenced the others play.

[Barry]

Getting 9:1 on a call, I thought that there was no way that I could fold. I decided to 3-bet and see if I could fold out everybody behind me as there was a chance that the CO was on a draw. If not I still had some outs.

The other 3 folded and the CO called

Turn was the K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

CO checked and I bet, the CO called

The river was the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

check, bet, call

CO had J9o and MHIG.

So was I just lucky or did I did I make my own luck?

[Turning Stone Pro]

Who lost $300 per week, every week, for 15 years . . . .
what would he say in this spot, as he threw his $30 in???

"CALL ALL BETS!!"

TSP

[TwoNiner]

I don't think you have enough of the flop to continue for two bets, not even closing the action. Backdoor one card str8 draw, backdoor queen flush, your two pair outs severely tainted with it putting 7,10,J,(Q) on board. And all this with a made straight having flopped. Just not enough clean outs to continue for me.