Was this a correct or even smart play on my part?

Sidekick · #1 08-24-2004, 09:59 AM

I am not concerned with how the cards fell (well, I am... but that isn't what I'm looking for in the replies), but whether in the opinions of the posters if this was the correct call or even a smart play on my part.

I have dropped to just barely below 10x the BB now, which is at 200. Over the last circuit MP2 seems to have been making some half hearted stabs at stealing the blinds. Perhaps, he actually had good hands and just folded on the flop when called... but that isn't how I was reading the situation.

When MP2 goes all in, it is my belief that he is taking a shot with a weaker hand and trying to steal the pot. It gets folded to me on the button. While my hand is not that good, my situation is pretty bad as well. I felt that this was maybe my best opportunity to pick up some chips.

Was my call of the all-in good, ok or just plain sucks? All opinions appreciated. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed)

UTG (t13600)
UTG+1 (t6000)
MP1 (t5517)
MP2 (t1226)
MP3 (t3120)
CO (t5290)
Hero (t1987)
SB (t3790)
BB (t5095)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 raises to t1226, MP3 folds, CO folds, Hero raises to t1987, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (t3513) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t3513) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t3513) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t3513

Results in white below: 
MP2 shows 7d 5d (two pair, sevens and fives).
Hero shows As 6s (high card, ace).
Outcome: MP2 wins t3513.

Officer Farva · #2 08-24-2004, 10:15 AM

This was clearly the right play. Don't even think about second guessing yourself. At this point in the tourney, you should probably be happy with a coin flip. You made a good read and generated a 60-40 flip in your favor, and did so against a smaller stack who could not completely take you out. This is textbook NLH. More often that not, you pick up his chips and are in good position in the tourney. Sometimes, he gets lucky and you still have enough so to double twice and get back in it.

Remember, once you have <10BB, you're looking to push with any ace, suited connector, pair, two face, or even KXs if must be. Ideally you'd like to be the first in, but you'd also like to go against a smaller stack. Given you're read, your cards, and your opponent, I feel that the move in was the only way to go.

betgo · #3 08-25-2004, 12:28 AM

I don't like this play. Maybe you had a great read on your opponent. Even so you were less than a 3-2 favorite. A6s is a 7-3 underdog against almost any standard raising hand (A7 or better or 77 or better).

Because of the pot odds, your chances are not that bad. However, there are others to act behind you. One of them might have a real hand, unlike you and your oppponent.

I don't agree with the comment that with 10xBB, you should move in with any ace, pair, face cards, or suited connector. You should move in with any legitimate raising hand. From late position after everyone has passed, the standards might be close to those you mention, but I would need to be on the button or SB to play A6s.

Sidekick · #4 08-25-2004, 12:45 AM

Betgo, for what it is worth I WAS on the button. I realize that still left the SB and BB to act behind me.

I appreciate the differing opinion though. Gives me added food for thought. I have to admit I don't LIKE going all-in with a hand like this, but it seems to be the general advice that I have seen when you have dropped below 10x the BB in chips.

Since I'm trying to further improve my game, I'm trying really hard to follow the advice given by those with more experience than myself. I tend to test these things out in very low buy in tournaments and see how my modified play does.

donny5k · #5 08-25-2004, 12:51 AM

You were on the button in an opened pot. Much different than being on the button in an unopened pot.

Sidekick · #6 08-25-2004, 01:06 AM

Pardon my ignorance but... opened pot? Unopened pot? I have never seen (or noticed at any rate) these terms before. I don't see them listed in the index of any of my poker books... what do these terms mean?

betgo · #7 08-25-2004, 01:08 AM

I don't know who has been telling you to play junk hands when you are short stacked (other than Farva). When you are short stacked you want to save your chips and put them in when the odds are in your favor. I look for opportunitues to reraise allin with AQ or JJ or better, or maybe less against a late position raise.

ethan · #8 08-25-2004, 01:23 AM

As far as this being the right play, you went with your read and were correct. But in general, A6s is not a hand to be calling all-in. You're never going to see 2 unpaired undercards, so your best case (as happened here) is being a 60-40 favorite. A great many raising hands have an ace and a better kicker and almost any pair has you badly beat.

As far as pushing to steal, I think the recommendations (edit - "in Farva's post") aren't correct. If you push and get called, you don't want to be dominated and the "any ace/king" mentality can get you in trouble in that respect. Unless you have a real premium hand, it's very important to be the one pushing rather than calling.

You're not desperate, I like waiting for a better hand here. Push with AK/AQ/99, get called by someone with A6s, and double up.

GoldenHorde · #9 08-25-2004, 01:24 AM

The difference is when you are first to act A-6s has a lot more value if you push and take the blinds most of the time then when you call all in or in this case most of your chips. You are gonna find yourself dominated much more often than the other way around remember loose/weak players get cards too and he makes the same move with A7 through AK.

Not to mention you aren't much better than a coinflop with A6s against any 2 face cards. There are much much better situations especially given the fact you have 2k exactly 10x the BB and are on the button. Just because you've entered the all in pushing range doesn't mean you are desperate it just means you don't have enough chips to fool around and you want to be doing the raising not calling it.

Sidekick · #10 08-25-2004, 01:25 AM

I have to admit that I personally like this advice better... but at what point do you decide that you have to bet because your stack has grown too small to wait any longer?

I have gone 100+ hands in a tournament before and not seen a hand that is as strong as you are saying to look for. At what point do you draw the line and say I have to get lucky otherwise I will have to make several weak plays and get lucky on each one just to pull myself back to an average chip position?

It seems to me (and I am probably wrong) that there has to be some arbitrary point at which you have to play a less than premium hand in order to try and save yourself from elimination? Otherwise the blinds and antes can completely wipe out your chip stack while you wait (and yes I had that happen to me in one of my first tournaments).