2 hands against 'The Rock'

btspider · #1 08-20-2004, 12:21 AM

Villian is a rock. I wasn't sure how to adjust my postflop play to his presence though. I played these two flops normally, partly hoping to fold overcards from him. mistakes? likely...

Hand 1:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (The Rock) 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, MP3 folds, The Rock calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, The Rock calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

River: (14.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, The Rock calls, Hero folds, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 16.25 BB
Main Pot: 16.25 BB, between MP2 and The Rock.

--------------------------

Hand 2:
Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB (The Rock) 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (18.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
The Rock bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, The Rock calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (15.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
The Rock checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, MP3 folds, CO checks, Button checks.

River: (15.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
The Rock checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB
Main Pot: 15.25 BB, between UTG+2, Hero, CO, Button and The Rock.

Sent · #2 08-20-2004, 12:40 AM

Hand 2 I would bet the turn after raising the flop

-Sent

btspider · #3 08-20-2004, 09:45 AM

I was fortunate to get the free card in hand 2, which was a bonus. i was surprised by all the cold-callers on my flop raise. i didn't think anyone would really fold to a turn bet with such a large pot. i was still drawing since I have no showdown value, so i wanted to see if someone bet and someone check-raised or something. i'd call one bet, but if action broke out, my overcards would probably not be good.

my concern with both of these hands is that i am drawing thin or to only half the pot and i'm not adjusting to The Rock's PF display of aggression. no real action broke out on either hand and The Rock is a bit passive postflop.. so I found it hard to lay either of these down (if I even should have).

crockett · #4 08-20-2004, 10:09 AM

Wow! You sure do play aggressive. I'm not giving advice because I'm not qualified but I would like to add my thoughts.

I thought a Rock meant a very tight player who plays only when they are in a very very good situation. If this is correct and that is your read, your playing high card hands against a guy with a made hand.

On hand 1 I probably call the flop bet but after a rock is bet into when a pair hits the board and they still call and I'm holding A high. I'm outta there.

On hand 2. Is it standard to raise an early caller with KQo from middle position?

And if a Rock player caps pre-flop you have to assume you are totally dominated. I mean I guess you could hope he capped with JJ but I don't think rock players do this, do they? You have to put him on AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AK, ...possibly AQs.

Then the flop comes and you have complete rags..no flush draw or no straight draw.

If you have no reads then everything I just said goes right in the trash can but if this player is truly a rock I don't think I play like you did.

btspider · #5 08-20-2004, 10:35 AM

i'm at 1.5 aggression according to PT. so there are more aggressive players than I [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] neither hand was capped PF, only 3-bet by the rock.. so JJ is still in the mix.

[ QUOTE ]
On hand 1 I probably call the flop bet but after a rock is bet into when a pair hits the board and they still call and I'm holding A high. I'm outta there.

[/ QUOTE ]

this sounds reasonable. the pot isn't huge. I think once the rock calls the turn, he is saying he's got a made overpair or AK. I may be drawing dead, drawing to split, or drawing to 3 outs against KK. Only if he has QQ or JJ would it be worth a call, but the flop/turn bettor may have me beat as well.

[ QUOTE ]
On hand 2. Is it standard to raise an early caller with KQo from middle position?

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, if no one has raised yet, KQo is worth raising from any position, even UTG. the trouble with hand 2 is its a larger pot than hand 1. my hand is weaker though and the rock did his 3-bet thing from the BB (might drop JJ from his possible holdings b/c of that). I think I was hoping I had 3 outs, so I raised to try to fold those behind me and get a free river card. i think the pot was too big for that to work. perhaps a call and turn fold would have been better. i'm not sure about a flop fold fearing domination though.

ftball0000 · #6 08-20-2004, 12:46 PM

On hand #2 why did you raise the flop after he 3-bet you preflop. All you have are overcards and a backdoor straight draw, and the overcards might not even be good if this guy is so much of a rock, he would have something if he 3-bets you. Could someone please explain this to me, I'm kinda new, so I might be missing something

Thanks,
-Ftball

btspider · #7 08-20-2004, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
On hand #2 why did you raise the flop after he 3-bet you preflop. All you have are overcards and a backdoor straight draw, and the overcards might not even be good if this guy is so much of a rock, he would have something if he 3-bets you. Could someone please explain this to me, I'm kinda new, so I might be missing something

Thanks,
-Ftball

[/ QUOTE ]

the pot was very big. why call when you can raise [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] i wanted to fold those behind me and see a free river card if I think I am playing with 3 outs. that was WAY too optimistic. the pot is too big, i am too far off the button, and the rock won't fold overcards of his own. i find it hard to fold for a single bet there and calling and letting everyone come along seems bad for my weak holding as well. i think a fold may be correct since the rock is semi-passive and his flop bet would mean a high pocket pair. this leaves me hoping for JJ or QQ.. that's too optimistic.

btspider · #8 08-20-2004, 01:40 PM

Results:

Hand 1:
CO (The Rock) shows KK
MP2 shows 97s for the boat

Hand 2:
BB (The Rock) shows Qh Qs (one pair, queens).
UTG+2 shows Ac 5h (one pair, fives).
Hero shows Qd Kc (high card, king).
CO shows 8c 8s (one pair, eights).
Button shows Td Ks (high card, king).
Outcome: BB (The Rock) wins 15.25 BB.

Milky · #9 08-20-2004, 04:15 PM

Here's how I would have played it (keep in mind I'm still learning!!)

Hand 1 - I like your play up until the turn. I fold after the rock calls because I have to figure I'm beat at least by him.

Hand 2 - I fold to the rock's bet on the flop. You have a backdoor straight possible and overcards but there's already two to a flush and a possible straight (though very unlikely). I have to figure I'm beat again by the rock. But I do agree that if you're going to stay in the hand you might as well raise the flop to drive anyone else out behind you or get some better reads.