Winners becoming losers

dfscott · #1 08-11-2004, 01:14 PM

Since moving to 1/2, two of my biggest winners, 99 and AQo, have become my two biggest losers. It's not statisically significant yet, but I thought I'd post a hand of each to see if anyone can spot any leaks. In particular, I feel like I've started to play scared...

99 hand:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks,

Flop: (6.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: (14.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero folds, MP2 raises, Button calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 20.25 BB
Main Pot: 20.25 BB, between BB, MP2 and Button.

AQ hand:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 folds, SB folds.

Turn: (5 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (9 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB
Main Pot: 11 BB, between Hero and UTG.

kgrad5 · #2 08-11-2004, 01:18 PM

why are you calling the turn and folding for 1 bet on the river? baaad. if you dont think your hand is good, the turn is the place to fold.

Sent · #3 08-11-2004, 01:22 PM

Yeah, if you are only seeing the river hoping for a 9 then fold the turn to the raise when the 4 straight comes.

-Sent

dfscott · #4 08-11-2004, 01:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why are you calling the turn and folding for 1 bet on the river? baaad. if you dont think your hand is good, the turn is the place to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I thought I might be ahead of MP on the turn, even though he raised. When the A dropped and BB came alive, I felt like I was going to be trapped between two better hands.

If I had thought I could see the river for one bet, I definitely would've called.

kgrad5 · #5 08-11-2004, 01:30 PM

oh whoops, i thought it was the same person who bet the turn who bet the river, in that case it wasnt a bad fold at all, infact it was a good one if you were anticipateing a raise from behind and you felt your hand was not good

dfscott · #6 08-11-2004, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
oh whoops, i thought it was the same person who bet the turn who bet the river, in that case it wasnt a bad fold at all, infact it was a good one if you were anticipateing a raise from behind and you felt your hand was not good

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to say that I was anticipating the raise, but in reality, I was more concerned that I was now beat by BB who was betting into the turn raiser (and I put on an A). The raise basically just solidified my hunch that I wasn't the best hand.

Not saying that this thinking is correct, just trying to explain my thoughts at the time.

SoCalPat · #7 08-11-2004, 01:40 PM

How about C/R'ing the flop in Hand 1?

You've still got a bunch of people behind you to act, and it's highly unlikely you'll get any to fold for one bet, not to mention there are a multitude of cards that could fall that would ace out your hand. Now, no one's going to fold their club draw, but if you can get anyone with overcards, 5x, 3x to fold ... you really improve your chances of winning. And by C/R'ing the flop, it's not unreasonable to expect this.

kgrad5 · #8 08-11-2004, 01:40 PM

oh well in that case i go back to my first opinion of not liking the fold. the pot is pretty big at this point and a lot of people will make a play with a missed draw something like 78 and i would make the call, but your line of thinking is a bit weak imo. However if you anticipate a raise from behind it is a good fold.. does this make sense?

kenewbie · #9 08-11-2004, 01:41 PM

Both hands look good to me. Maybe one could argue you gave up on AQ a bit early but I think I would have played it the same way.

k

dfscott · #10 08-11-2004, 01:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How about C/R'ing the flop in Hand 1?

You've still got a bunch of people behind you to act, and it's highly unlikely you'll get any to fold for one bet, not to mention there are a multitude of cards that could fall that would ace out your hand. Now, no one's going to fold their club draw, but if you can get anyone with overcards, 5x, 3x to fold ... you really improve your chances of winning. And by C/R'ing the flop, it's not unreasonable to expect this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do like that, but my C/R's have been whiffing lately so I'd been afraid to try 'em without a pre-flop raiser. Maybe worth it in this case since as you noted, 1 bet doesn't help much anyway.

In fact, this is one of those cases where I was trying to do Miller's idea of just calling the flop and c/r the turn to protect your hand when it's a small overpair. However, the scary turn card threw me off that strategy.