I, ugh ... call?

DrSavage · #1 08-03-2004, 10:30 AM

Button is a total maniac who's proven to be completely unpredictable. His flop raise was an autoraise, so was the turn bet. No real reads on anyone else.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $5.
UTG calls, MP folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG calls, CO calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, UTG folds, CO folds.

River: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

fnord_too · #2 08-03-2004, 10:57 AM

I keep looking at this and it just makes my head hurt.

The call on the end is ok I think if the button is the complete maniac you describe. The bad part is if he shows down a busted draw with the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] you catch a complete bluff and still lose.

Were you planning on check raising the flop (until the UTG bet got in the way)?

I don't know what I do with that hand. I want to say raise pre flop and lead the flop, but I don't like being the aggressor from worst position with just QK, so I probably just complete too. Maybe lead the flop? Cold calling the raise seems questionable. Three betting here is better, or even just laying it down. You are getting 4-1 on your second nut flush draw, but if the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is out you are drawing pretty thin.

I'm leaning towards laying it down on the flop, why mix it up with a maniac here? Wait until you have a better hand and punish him. The fact that there are 2 other people left in the pot at this point scares me. What's the old adage? Don't get picked off when you are picking off the maniac?

fyodor · #3 08-03-2004, 11:00 AM

Against that specific player I call. Normally I muck.

Apocalypse · #4 08-03-2004, 02:22 PM

i think calling with the nut nopair/no-ace against a maniac getting 9.5 to 1 seems not even to be a close call, but an obvious one. That is, if this guy raises the flop and bets the turn (and bets the river if checked to i assume?) on virtually every hand as you describe...

rtucker5 · #5 08-03-2004, 03:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think calling with the nut nopair/no-ace against a maniac getting 9.5 to 1 seems not even to be a close call, but an obvious one. That is, if this guy raises the flop and bets the turn (and bets the river if checked to i assume?) on virtually every hand as you describe...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but what hand can you beat? I would probably fold the river, but I would have played the hand differently from the start.

Apocalypse · #6 08-03-2004, 04:06 PM

What hand can you beat? Any hand that isn't a pair, or has no ace in it, hence the nut nopair/no-ace [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img] That leaves a LOT of hands a true maniac will see showdown with (and betting with) and i garantee you will win this pot a fair more share than once every 10.5 times.

For the rest of the hand, would anyone try to check-reraise the maniac here to isolate? Depending on the tightness i put my fellow opponents here, i certainly think its worth the shot since you'll still be favorite (about 52%) to make either a queen, king or a flush if you fail to isolate. Succeeding sets you into check-call mode against an opponent that very well could be betting the worst hand and give you some implied odds when you hit ... the jury's still out though, so tell me what you think

DrSavage · #7 08-03-2004, 04:38 PM

A few comments first:
Preflop - i don't think the raising is correct with maniac in the hand with a mediocre hand out of position. He'll be able to move me off my hand easily if i don't connect so i think it's better to see the flop here first.
Flop - in retrospect probably betting out is a better idea so the whole field would call and the maniac would raise. I checked to just kinda see what develops. Luckily UTG did my job for me by betting out. I think call on the flop is easy as i have more than enough odds to my flush, also i'm less worried about As since there was no raise preflop. 3 betting is possible again, but i didn't want to shut off the enitre field which might pay me off if i hit my flush and getting into a raising war with a maniac without a hand. Also if a queen or a king comes on turn i now get an option of check/raising to isolate with top pair.
River - I considered betting out but he seemed like a guy who could raise anything here and i didn't feel like investing 2 bets on the river with king high.

Long story short - he has Qs 6c and MHIG.

Apocalypse · #8 08-03-2004, 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
3 betting is possible again, but i didn't want to shut off the enitre field which might pay me off if i hit my flush and getting into a raising war with a maniac without a hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I think with these many outs combined with the possibility of taking a pot down without even having to make a hand is a brighter prospect than taking this pot down only IF you hit. Im getting more and more sure of this...

as for a raisingwar like i said, get into checkcall mode, as every maniac will bluff if induced to setting you up for a nice checkraise when you hit