Ethical Question: Sharing PT Databases

JrJordan · #1 07-30-2004, 03:17 PM

I received a PM the other day froms omeone requesting to share all of our hand histories so we can get better/wider stats on the players at our level. I immediately responded that I was interested. Now, however, I'm starting to feel that it's borderline ethically. I have no problem whatsoever with using my OWN hands to export notes on players. For some reason I feel like I should earn that data instead of getting the read for cheap.

I guess the equivalent would be having a friend invite you to an unknown home game. Before you walk in, he gives you a pretty detailed description about how everyone at the table plays. "This guy will only raise PF with AA, KK and AK" is equivalent to "VP$IP: 13% PFR: 2%".

For some reason, I don't feel any ethical dilemma with the second example? It's obviously not going to kill me either way, but I can be pursuaded in either direction. What do you gys think, and why does the second example seem okay to me?

JrJordan · #2 07-30-2004, 11:58 PM

Bump

smartalecc5 · #3 07-31-2004, 12:26 AM

I play on Prima poker. Do you? If so, we can swap I guess. I dont find PT stats overwhelmingly helpful. Sre it may help, but wont make u win everytime.

threeonefour · #4 07-31-2004, 03:08 AM

information is a commodity like anything else in poker or in real life. information has value so i would see nothing wrong with buying selling or trading information with others. thats capitalism at its finest.

at any rate, i would be nervous about giving away my hand histories because you are giving away a ton of information about yourself. forget about other players play, the person you are giving the histories to can basically figure out everything there is to know about how you play poker.

although if he is a friend and trustworthy or you don't think you will ever play him and he won't give the info to others then you may be in the clear.

MicroBob · #5 07-31-2004, 05:03 AM

i certainly am not concerned with someone trying to figure out what the hell i am doing based on all of my mistakes in my various HH's.
that would take a ton of study and is just plain silly to think it is cause for concern.

as for the initial question as to the ethics. i'm actually not sure on this either.
i'm probably okay with it. i have had a couple of pm's offering HH's if/when i ever moved up to a higher level (where i have zero HH's and they have a ton).
this is an interesting twist on it.....i am offering nothing and getting some decent date before i even sit at a 5/10 or 15/30 table or whatever.

so i have no huge problem with it....but i also am willing to be persuaded on this issue.

your other scenario is just walking into 1 game with 8 or 9 other players....which is a bit different than getting a database on a few thousand other players.
but i don't think this is the entire reason why the live home-game feels less sleazy. and, like you, i am at a loss to pinpoint why.

warlockjd · #6 07-31-2004, 06:06 AM

Its just like my roommate pointing out a fish's tell to me; ethical nonissue

chesspain · #7 07-31-2004, 07:43 AM

There is nothing unethical or immoral about sharing what is essential public information. But if you don't feel comfortable sharing files, then don't share.

MicroBob · #8 07-31-2004, 04:03 PM

well...conceiveably 20 of us could get together and share our stats.
or 100 of us. whatever.

there was that thread in the zoo about the group that seems to just be requesting as many HH's from party as they can and selling the stats for $10/mth or something.
you get stats on EVERY player at party.

there were quite a few people who had a problem with this....and some who thought it was very dangerous to give the decent players an even larger advantage over the fish because it would bankrupt them more quickly.

i did not agree with this opinion....but because others have expressed concern about it i have to think it is a little bit more than a non-issue (but perhaps not a LOT more).

StellarWind · #9 07-31-2004, 08:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
there were quite a few people who had a problem with this....and some who thought it was very dangerous to give the decent players an even larger advantage over the fish because it would bankrupt them more quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]
A casino can run a -EV craps game 24/7 and never run short of customers. But let there be one whiff that the house is using crooked dice and they could be ruined.

Apply that idea to HH databases and you see the real danger. The fun players are likely to view it as unfair and quit.

Blarg · #10 08-01-2004, 07:36 PM

There's also an online site that gives you access to all the handhistories they get. Their profit is that to participate, you either pay outright for them, contribute your own hand histories in trade, or sign up to sites under their affiliate code so they get part of your rake.

I'm often curious how well they're doing.

Anyway, people will do what they want to do, and there will definitely be people wanting to swap data. There's a degree of pointless to our wondering about the ethical constraints on people who either don't see an ethical issue involved in the first place or won't let that stop them from doing whatever they want to do.

If anyone believes there is an ethical or any other kind of issue involved and/or that swapping data is wrong, he'll be pretty much preaching to the choir for the most part anyway.