I was completely lost on this hand ... OOP big draw, deep stacks

yvesaint · #1 08-23-2005, 12:27 PM

Prima 200 NL 4-handed, Villain (Button) has $400, Villain (limper) has $200, I have both covered.

One limp, Button raises to $6, I call with 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the SB, BB folds and limper calls.

Flop ($20): Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

What's my move? Bet out? Check-call? Further streets to come, I think I mangled this one.

sting · #2 08-23-2005, 12:37 PM

I'd bet $15 hoping to take it down there, but would call a reasonable raise. Being out of position really sucks here though because 1 or 2 flat calls or a big reraise has to make you think your flush draw is no good. If both call, im not playing a big pot with anything other than the straight (no more clubs).

Ghazban · #3 08-23-2005, 12:38 PM

Reads?

yvesaint · #4 08-23-2005, 12:43 PM

Limper is average, tighter pre-flop, but will raise TPTK and chase draws.

Button is very loose pre-flop, and general calling station post-flop, will chase all draws.

Ghazban · #5 08-23-2005, 01:02 PM

I'm not sure what the best line here is. Does the limper's limp/call suggest he's most likely holding a small-medium pair? If that's the case, he'll let you know on the flop if he made his set or not (probably with a checkraise of button's expected bet). I think I take a "wait and see" approach on the flop and check/call so long as it isn't bet and raised before it gets back to me. The two things you don't want your opponents to have are AcKc and a set and I'm not sure of a cheap way to determine whether or not they have either of those holdings. I would proceed to hit a red 4 on the turn and a red deuce on the river so I could stack button's QQ and limper's 88 at the same time [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

MINETZ · #6 08-23-2005, 01:04 PM

id lead full pot hoping to get riased so i could move in, you have tons of fold equity, if not u have a million outs.
Noah

yvesaint · #7 08-23-2005, 01:28 PM

I got confused and ended up check-calling a bet of $12 by the Button. Turn is a 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], check-check on the turn, River falls another Q and I check-fold.

Now what about this hand?

Exact same Villains, exact same positions (funny, huh).

One limper, Button raises to $6, I call in the SB with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Now limper has $300, Button still has around $400. I cover both.

Flop ($20): J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I lead for $16, limper mini-raises to $32, Button flat calls the mini-raise. Re-raise or call? This could easily mean both of them have top pair with a good kicker, or one of them has top pair and the other has a straight of flush draw, but it could always mean two-pair/set/overpair.

xorbie · #8 08-23-2005, 01:39 PM

Hey, with these stacks I really like check/call flop and lead turn no matter what (well maybe unless it's an offsuit ace).

PokerFink · #9 08-23-2005, 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, with these stacks I really like check/call flop and lead turn no matter what (well maybe unless it's an offsuit ace).

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? God I hate OOP draws.

On the first hand, I like a big check/raise on the flop, since it gives you the highest fold equity against a bigger club draw. If you're up against a set, oh well, get it all-in on the flop and gamboooool it up.