Flop decision

Manzanita · #1 08-13-2004, 05:12 PM

I'm playing in a good $10-20 game that is quite loose.

I pick up A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and limp. We end up 7-handed for a single bet.

The flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The BB, a loose weak player, bets out. I'm next to act; what's my best play? Assume that a raise here would narrow the field down to one or two opponents, but that if I just smooth-call I'll probably end up facing three or four players.

I'll post my action and the results later.

-- Manzanita

Nightwish · #2 08-13-2004, 05:16 PM

You should have raised preflop.

Given that you didn't, I would smooth call this flop and raise the turn.

ike · #3 08-13-2004, 05:32 PM

I agree that he should have raised PF, however I still think he needs to raise the flop. Dominated flush draws aren't going anywhere if you raise but nonspade overcards will fold. This is exactly what you want.

Garland · #4 08-13-2004, 05:40 PM

Wow, what a dream flop.

I guess the question is whether to let others hang around for your flush draw or protect your TPTK.

Your flush will come about 1/3 the time and you'll probably improve to a flush, two pair or trip Js about 54% of the time, each of these seeming to be winners. Your hand has an excellent chance of standing up on its own.

If you smooth call and let the others in, you're doing it at the risk of what? Overcards? 3 non [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Kings, 3 non [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Queens. Maybe some obscure straight draw out there?

I think the overlay of having so many loose opponents outways the risk you take by letting other players in cheaply. I'd smooth call here, see what develops in terms of betting, look at the turn and go from there.

Garland

Garland · #5 08-13-2004, 05:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You should have raised preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the game is quite loose and a limpfest (7 players!), I think this AJs works well for a limp UTG due to its drawing nature. AJo is definitely a raise or fold hand UTG though.

Garland

Nate tha' Great · #6 08-13-2004, 05:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm playing in a good $10-20 game that is quite loose.

I pick up A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG and limp. We end up 7-handed for a single bet.

The flop comes J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. The BB, a loose weak player, bets out. I'm next to act; what's my best play? Assume that a raise here would narrow the field down to one or two opponents, but that if I just smooth-call I'll probably end up facing three or four players.

I'll post my action and the results later.

-- Manzanita

[/ QUOTE ]

I also think this is one of those times when calling is okay. The reason is that the two lower-ranked cards on the board are so unlikely to have helped anyone in terms of pair or straight possibilities.

If the board instead were something like J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], then raising would definitely be correct.

CK1 · #7 08-13-2004, 06:19 PM

There is no need for a fancy play. No one will know that you are on a nut flush draw. If a spade hits and some else makes a flush, you will get action independent of how you play the flop. .

Raise it.

CK

JasonP530 · #8 08-13-2004, 09:39 PM

I would just call. People who are calling have very few outs, and are likely to pay you all the way if you dont raise. Even if someone is lucky enough to make 2 pair, you can redraw on them in a lot ways. The other advantage to calling is that if it gets raised behind you, you can reraise and either get some dead money in there, or make a large pot with a hand that looks to win over 50% of the time.

Emoney · #9 08-13-2004, 10:46 PM

i think this is a very close decision. because it was an unraised pot you can't eliminate 66 being out there. but you wouldn't assume that until someone gave you reason to. the big factor to me is that there are still 5 people left to act. you're ahead of KJ,QJ, and JT all of whom may raise behind you because of the flush draw out there. furthermore you have all the flush draws beaten who will likely call two bets on the flop. as long as the board doesn't pair on the turn you'd be golden.

with 8 bets in the pot already i'd raise. mainly because all the hands that would call two bets and not one are hands that you are a favorite against, save 66 which you have odds to draw against. while all the hands that would fold are hands that you don't want in the pot, ie naked 6s and 3s that could catch two pair or overcards. i think KJ and QJ call, KJ possibly 3-betting. if you get raised you can cap and trap everyone in between you and the 3-bettor into paying your nut flush draw.

Rick Nebiolo · #10 08-13-2004, 10:59 PM

Call and hope for more callers and a late position raise then backraise for value. If you get a raise immediately behind you don't be afraid to overrepresent your immediate strength and jam with the flush outs.

If you call and only get a few callers (still not bad) and a low card blank comes on the turn then raise if the BB leads out or bet if he checks.

~ Rick