Standard flop 3-bet right?

#1 12-01-2005, 06:18 PM

No stats. Table is pretty tight and not very aggressive but
a few players occasionally suffer from the FPS.
A few hands ago, MP c/r me HU with air and hit his runner-runner flush.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, SB folds, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP calls.

River: (15.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Peter Harris · #2 12-01-2005, 06:33 PM

I would play it like this. Heads up i would bet the river, but I don't want to reopen betting especially with the donkey UTG call-calling (flush draw? K hi??) and 2 opponents.

milesdyson · #3 12-01-2005, 06:45 PM

is this flop 3-bet not to see a free river? when MP raises that flop with the preflop 3-bettor and capper behind him, i'm gonna say we have the best hand almost never. why not take the free card?

Peter Harris · #4 12-01-2005, 07:14 PM

because if one took a free card on the turn we'd have to call a river bet for SD, the turn continuation bet keeps the momentum and likely allows a free SD; maybe this reasoning is why i'm a TAGtard.

Why couldn't UTG be on a busted flush draw and MP holding AT for an overcard and gutshot? I'd raise the flop with AT here hoping to push out an AK no spades or something similar.

admiralfluff · #5 12-01-2005, 07:21 PM

You would raise AT here against a pf-capper into the pf 3 bettor? I would expect to usually be putting in 4 bets on this flop if I raised. I think we are almost never ahead here, and would call flop, call turn or bet if checked to. If SB has AK AND MP has AT (possible, but unlikely nested conditional) this turn will usually be checked to hero. The line taken may very well have scared SB into cc mode with QQ.

#6 12-01-2005, 07:46 PM

You have position on the raiser. Just call the flop and let him keep bluffing. You will fold a J here never. If he checks any later street you can bet. Plus, 3-betting drives out the SB, who is padding the pot with an underpair probably.

Edit: i didn't notice SB capped PF. That makes it really complicated. If he has AQs or AK, you want him out of the pot, because he'll probably have odds to draw if he knew you just had JJ. If he has an overpair, you should get out unless you have odds for your gutshot.

#7 12-01-2005, 08:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have position on the raiser. Just call the flop and let him keep bluffing. You will fold a J here never. If he checks any later street you can bet. Plus, 3-betting drives out the SB, who is padding the pot with an underpair probably.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to fold a J, I'm protecting my hand by trying to let SB or/and UTG fold their possible 1 or 2 overcards and maybe clear some of my outs.
Why do you think SB has an underpair?

I agree I maybe should have checked the turn for a free river though.

Peter Harris · #8 12-01-2005, 08:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The line taken may very well have scared SB into cc mode with QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

SB folds the flop. Do you mean MP? I think peeling has its merits, but i am terribly aggressive; it's things like this i need to resolve. My inability to call along probably costs me at least 1BB/100.

ArturiusX · #9 12-01-2005, 08:15 PM

I just call. This is getting capped behind us a lot. We're never getting a free turn rarely, and our equity isnt all that high even vs non pockets.

Check behind the turn, I dont get this bet.

#10 12-01-2005, 09:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm protecting my hand by trying to let SB or/and UTG fold their possible 1 or 2 overcards and maybe clear some of my outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no outs to clear. No one has Q9. And if they do, they probably aren't folding.