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#1
12-23-2003, 11:59 AM
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Please stop talk about \"playing the player\"
I am always surprise to read, online and in some books, autors argumenting about the importance of "playing the player"
In my opinion, this is the most overevaluete concept in poker. Most player make just stupid move, thinking they are playing the player, and use this excuse to explain the way they play a hand! Often, "playing the player" is only the sign of weak knowledge in game theory To think you know how a player play just because you saw him raising 3 times in a row is totaly irrelevant. To get any significant information, the player must be really caricatural or you need a very big sample of hands against him I play online, use pokerstat and pokertracker; in my database, i have more than 200000 hands, most at 30/60, some at 100/200. At these limits, "playing the player" is most often not only unusefull, but dangerous. I only adapt my play against well known players (i mean more than 1000 hands played against them), and only if their stats are very strange (for example 50% flop seen). Playing just solid agressive play, watching TV insteed of watching other players, i win, after 180000 hands, 2BB/hour at 30/60 and, after 20000 hands (not that much and probably not significant, i agree), 1BB/hour at 100/200 So please, stop always ask "how does he play"... and stop always answer at every question "it depends..." Thanks...and happy new year Serge 
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#3
12-23-2003, 12:52 PM
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Re: Please stop talk about \"playing the player\"
I assume playing the player is much more important in no-limit or pot-limit than in limit poker. But that doesn't mean is is not useful in improving one's performance in limit play as well.
There is no substitute for a solid strategy. But one's tactics can and should indeed vary depending upon who your opponent is. What is correct against a loose, aggressive player can be completely wrong against a tight, passive player. This makes logical sense. If you are playing the same against a Poker Babe type of player as you are against a mike l. type you are giving up $. (And I mean this as a compliment to both Poker Babe and mike l.) Not all questions have a "depends" in their answers. But some surely do.
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#5
12-23-2003, 01:40 PM
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Re: Please stop talk about \"playing the player\"
I play quite in a bit in the Pokerstars 100/200, which you apparently do as well (although I notice you aren't divulging your screenname there). I can't imagine playing against every player in that game the same way. However, in a setting like Partypoker where the same players have 3 screennames and there are 50 15/30 tables going at once and fish buyin and bust out every day and you are playing 5 tables, trying to play the player is a bit tough. There are times to play the player, and times not to.
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#7
12-23-2003, 02:02 PM
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Re: Please stop talk about \"playing the player\"
Playing the player online may be slightly over valued, in live poker once you are a good strategic player it is where most of your edge will come. Maybe you dont realize it but 90% of decisions in poker are situational, (thats why discussions on this board are great) and Id say ALL situational decisions take into account your opposition.... that is playing the player
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#8
12-23-2003, 02:02 PM
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Re: Please stop talk about \"playing the player\"
The Theory of Poker , by David Sklansky
Page 221, Reading Hands "The ability to read hands may be the most important weapon a poker player can have." "Reading hands is both an art and a science." "Even when you are not in a hand, you should not relax your concentration." ------------------------------ Page 236, The Thought Processes of Poker "What we mean by the psychology of poker is getting into your opponents' heads, analyzing how they think, figuring out what you think they think, and determining what they think you think they think. In this sense, the psychology of poker is an extension of reading opponents' hands, and it is also an extension of using deception in the way you play your own hand." ------------------------------ Page 241, Psychology and Future Impressions "Varying your play and making an 'incorrect' play intentionally are also part of the psychology of poker because you are trying to affect the thinking of your opponents for future hands." ------------------------------ Page 242, Summary "The psychology of poker is an important aspect of the game." Page 243 "The psychology of poker is an extension of reading hands and using deception in the play of your own hands, and thus is an extension of the Fundamental Theorem of Poker."
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#9
12-23-2003, 02:11 PM
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Re: Please stop talk about \"playing the player\"
"Playing the player online may be slightly over valued"
I'd guess that if anything, its more important online. This is because of the huge amount of objective information that is available on a given player.
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#10
12-23-2003, 02:18 PM
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Re: Please stop talk about \"playing the player\"
[ QUOTE ]
Playing the player online may be slightly over valued, in live poker once you are a good strategic player it is where most of your edge will come [/ QUOTE ] This just isn't true. Unless you are stuck somewhere where the only games are tough games, most of your edge comes from you playing ABC poker while your opponents play like clowns. Playing the player is where many excellent players gain that little extra that seperates them from the solid players.
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