Raising for a free showdown v.s. the donk bet.

bobdibble · #1 05-29-2005, 01:24 AM

Villian is pretty loose with medium aggression. 49/4/1
(I consider a 1 post flop to be aggressive for someone coming in half the time.)

Can anyone put villain on a range of hands? Am I good to call here?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 6 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero ?

mantasm · #2 05-29-2005, 01:28 AM

His range of hands is pretty wide and would include a busted flush, ace high, a queen, a seven, a pocket pair (probably higher than yours), and nothing at all. Good to call though, I think.

bobdibble · #3 05-29-2005, 01:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
His range of hands is pretty wide and would include a busted flush, ace high, a queen, a seven, a pocket pair (probably higher than yours), and nothing at all. Good to call though, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

He 3-bet out of the BB and has a pfr of 4. I am not sure his hand range is quite so wide.

mantasm · #4 05-29-2005, 01:42 AM

I missed that # when I read it. I saw loose and aggressive. It seems like the only preflop 3betting hand you beat is AK, but the river bet is suspicious. I'm thinking it's a fold but I know i'd click call.

bobdibble · #5 05-29-2005, 01:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking it's a fold but I know i'd click call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then we both suck. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

donger · #6 05-29-2005, 06:08 AM

Doesn't the free-showdown raise need more of an upside? Like at least a gutshot? I mean, I guess you win more if you hit your two-outer, but that seems to be stretching it.. Especially if your cursor is hovering over 'CALL' as he bets into you on the river..

Hoi Polloi · #7 05-29-2005, 08:19 AM

If you raise for a free show down and villain bets into on the river you're not getting your free show down. I think a fold is good here. Villain seems to like his hand better than I like yours.

I think you're better off calling down if you want to show down since villain seems to want to bet his hand.

henrikrh · #8 05-29-2005, 09:38 AM

Why raise for a free show down? A free show down will cost 2 BB, and calling him down will cost 2BBs, only in the free show down scenario he can 3bet the turn or bet the river, as has happened, now you've tossed an extra BB into the pot to get to SD.

Am i missing something?

squeek12 · #9 05-29-2005, 10:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why raise for a free show down? A free show down will cost 2 BB, and calling him down will cost 2BBs, only in the free show down scenario he can 3bet the turn or bet the river, as has happened, now you've tossed an extra BB into the pot to get to SD.

Am i missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, if a cheap showdown is really what you want, just call the turn and the river.

bobdibble · #10 05-29-2005, 05:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why raise for a free show down? A free show down will cost 2 BB, and calling him down will cost 2BBs, only in the free show down scenario he can 3bet the turn or bet the river, as has happened, now you've tossed an extra BB into the pot to get to SD.

Am i missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

The point of a free showdown is that raising the turn costs the same as calling a turn and river bet. However, there is a chance that your opponent may fold to a raise on the turn. Since the cost is the same, but you also add in the fold equity, raising the turn is +EV compaired to calling down. When making a free showdown play, you should not plan on putting any more money in. If 3-bet on the turn, or donk bet on the river, your plan is to fold.

I would have folded this hand to a turn 3-bet and should have folded to the river bet. The river donk bet on a total brick confused me though.