Set on Flush board

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

'Stars $30 + 3 Single. We're down to 7 players late in level II - blinds 15/30, I have 1780 in MP2.

I get T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Folded to me, I raise to 90, MP3 and both blinds call. 4 see the flop with 360 in the pot.

Flop: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet 360, only BB calls. Heads-up to the turn with 1080 in the pot.

Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB bets 610 all-in.

Your move? My decision and results later.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
'Stars $30 + 3 Single. We're down to 7 players late in level II - blinds 15/30, I have 1780 in MP2.

I get T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Folded to me, I raise to 90, MP3 and both blinds call. 4 see the flop with 360 in the pot.

Flop: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Checked to me, I bet 360, only BB calls. Heads-up to the turn with 1080 in the pot.

Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB bets 610 all-in.

Your move? My decision and results later.

[/ QUOTE ]

i would fold here. i doubt the BB only called the extra 60 preflop holding Q Q. i would think if he was that strong, he would have reraised you preflop to clear some of the other players and get you HU on the flop. there are three draws here: a heart flush draw, a heart straight flush draw, and a straight draw. the likely holding i'm thinking this player has is A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or A Jo, both of which alot of players will call preflop raises with. K K could be a possibility but as in the Q Q holding, i doubt this is their hole cards because if they are, their playing these hands entirely too tight and with all the hearts on the board and the straight draw, they end up letting too many other hands into the mix. trip 4s to me is a remote possibility and if that's the holding, he's nearly drawing dead with only one 4 left out there.

[Tosh]

He's not bluffing, but some of what he's not bluffing is worse than your set. He may well have a straight but he could have 2 pair. You have more than 2.5/1 on your call, and outs if you are behind. Laying it down is an error IMO.

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
He's not bluffing, but some of what he's not bluffing is worse than your set. He may well have a straight but he could have 2 pair. You have more than 2.5/1 on your call, and outs if you are behind. Laying it down is an error IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

so what two pair do you think this guy has, K Q? what about K 10, Q 10, 10 4, K 4, Q 4? if he has a Queen in his hand, the only hand i see calling a preflop raise with is K Q but with 3 other people in the pot including Kurn who raised, i don't like this hand. and Q 10 is even more marginal. a preflop raiser backing up his raise with a pot size bet on the flop tells me my hand is beat now and i'm probably a serious dog. calling a potsize bet here, IMO, is a bad move.
this guy is telling me he's calling to HIT SOMETHING like a draw. if he does have two pair with the King on the turn, i think he's in deep sh#t against Kurn who obviously has trips or could have made one of the draws.

[woodguy]

I think you call, and if he beats you its with QQ.
You have bet into him every time and he has called.
If he hits the flush on the turn he waits for you to bet into him again and then pushes.
To me his call on the flop is due to a made hand that's slowplaying, not a draw.

His turn bet shows he's scared of the flush, not that he has it.
I put him on 44 or QQ.

Given your stack size, I would call.

regards,
woodguy

[Desdia72]

like i said, it's hard for me to put a guy on Q Q preflop because i see a player at this level reraising my 90. to me, calling 60 more in chips with Q Q preflop is just like limping with it. you're giving someone with a weaker hand preflop a small price to hit something without reraising. i play $5 and $6 SNGs on Stars and would definitely reraise preflop with Q Q. with 4 4 preflop and trips on the flop, i would probably reraise Kurn on the flop just in case i put him on a flush or straight draw to see where i stand. i've definitely seen players call potsize bets with straight, flush draws, and non-made hands.

[woodguy]

I agree with your reasoning.

Could be a flush without the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and he's pushing to get a possible naked A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to fold..

QQ may call this flop instead of raising due to bad position, and fear of betting out on a flop that contains an A or K.
(I'm not saying its the right play, just not entirely improbable.)

Come on Kurn, tell me how wrong I am. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

regards,
woodguy

[Desdia72]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your reasoning.

Could be a flush without the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and he's pushing to get a possible naked A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to fold..

QQ may call this flop instead of raising due to bad position, and fear of betting out on a flop that contains an A or K.
(I'm not saying its the right play, just not entirely improbable.)

Come on Kurn, tell me how wrong I am. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

regards,
woodguy

[/ QUOTE ]

true, Q Q may call this flop if it has an Ace or King but it does'nt; it has a Queen which would mean trips. even still, calling a pot size bet with Q Q on the flop with and Ace or a King present does'nt look good to me, especially if i did'nt reraise with Q Q PF. if a guy calls my reraise PF and bets the size of the pot on the flop that has an Ace or King, something tells me he has an Ace or King in his hand. my Queens are now no good, IMO. that goes back to just calling only 60 more chips in the BB PF holding Q Q. it just seems too much like limping with them.

[woodguy]

Oops.
I meant QQ many call the PF bet, not the flop.
sorry, that really confused things.

regards,
woodguy

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I took a bit of time to decide, since I didn't have odds to call if he had the flush. I finally dedcided that I was about a 3:2 dog against the range of hands he would have played like this and getting 2.8:1 from the pot was too big an overlay to ignore, so I called.

He surprised me when he turned over Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

The river brought the J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and he was gone.