Opening Mid-Level PP's from MP

[Skip Brutale]

I feel like I'm making plays that may not be plus ev. Especially from seat 4, Im not sure how to handle 77 and 66. If I raise too often someone behind me will cold-call and I'll wind up out of position headsup or 3-handed in a raised pot with 77 which doesnt seem very good.

If I just call, often someone will raise behind me and I'll wind up in the same spot. Folding 77 and 88 from seat 4 seems kind of weak-tight, but maybe its the right move? What do you guys think. Also I play party 3/6.

[jjacky]

i think it's fine. you will pick up the blinds or be heads up against BB pretty often. against a CC you have some decent fold equity, probably the better starting hand and the chance to hit a set.

[Harv72b]

Table conditions matter, but I'll generally openraise either of these hands from MP1 on, openlimp maybe 20-25% of the time. If it ends up 3-handed and there's no 3-bet, I bet the flop 100% of the time. If I'm 3-bet and it ends up 3-handed, I'm check/raising any friendly flop (i.e., catch my set, all rags, or flop an OESD), leading into the raiser on any mediocre flop (i.e., 1 or 2 overcards with no more than 1 above a T and no ace), or check/folding if an obscenely bad flop comes down.

[chief444]

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If I raise too often someone behind me will cold-call and I'll wind up out of position headsup or 3-handed in a raised pot with 77

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Why do you see that as a bad thing?

[Harv72b]

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Why do you see that as a bad thing?

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It's very tricky to play a medium pocket pair from OOP, as you know, because you aren't often going to hit your set, and very, very often there are going to be overcards on the board. So I can definitely see why someone without a ton of experience would have difficulty in that situation.

It's one thing to say that you have a firm equity advantage against 1 or 2 opponents, but another thing entirely to cash in on it. For that reason, I don't think it's a terrible or even bad thing for beginning or somewhat experienced players to just limp these hands & play for the set. The rest will come with time.

[chief444]

Yeah, a very fair point Harv. I guess thinking back I used to limp with a lot of hands that I now raise since I just feel more comfortable with them postflop. Definitely not an easy situation to play though especially if the opponents are somewhat aggressive.

[Skip Brutale]

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If I raise too often someone behind me will cold-call and I'll wind up out of position headsup or 3-handed in a raised pot with 77

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Why do you see that as a bad thing?

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Why do I not like to play 77 out of position headsup or 3-handed? Let me ask you why I'd like to. What is good about it.

[Derek in NYC]

I cant remember the exact context of my question, but I PMed Nate about limping vs. raising the middle pairs from middle position, and he basically said, raise em up. The gist of his comment to me was that I was undervaluing the hands by considering their set value only, and not enough for their showdown value. I've been raising them ever since in full games and I like the results (although in fairness, I also have since switched to 6-max.)

[chief444]

Middle pocket pairs are pretty profitable hands either HU or 3-handed. Although as Harv correctly points out they aren't really that easy to play and it takes a while before you get more comfortable playing them especially on some more intimidating flops. But my main point was that what you see is a bad thing is really a profitable situation and therefore good thing although it is difficult to play optimally.

[SeaEagle]

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77 and 88 from seat 4 seems kind of weak-tight, but maybe its the right move?

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IMO, if you're going to limp w/ small pairs, better to limp from early position and hope for a lot of callers. By the time 3 or 4 people have folded in front of you, limping is likely to leave you with too few callers to make the hand profitable.

That leaves folding or raising. Depending on the texture of your game, there is nothing wrong with folding small pairs in MP, especially if you're uncomfortable playing them out of position. Several books not aimed at SS recommend folding small pairs in this situation (including HPFAP if I'm not mistaken).

Having said that, I think at Party 3/6 you need to at least be playing 88 (and probably 77 and 66) from seat 4. If you're uncomfortable playing them out of position, mabye just start raising 8's and higher and folding the rest. After you get a little experience you can add in 7s and after a while maybe add even smaller pairs.