Can the North secede from the Union?

[bort411]

I always wondered about this. Looking at a map of the last 2 presedential electoral results and comparing it to a map of the Confederacy and Union cerca 1864 reveals similiar results. Hypothetically speaking, after a 2008 presedential loss in which the former Union states vote similarly, could the heads of each of these states get together and decide to withdraw from the US?

I suppose an important question would be what to do with Ohio, Indiana, Iowa, California, the Pacific Northwest, and Hawaii. For arguements sake, let's say that the goal would be to form a unified Southern border along Illinois and Indiana stretching to Maryland, with Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio, and Minnesota included. Hawaii, the PN, and Calfornia would not be immediately involved.

As I understand it, this action from Northern States would not be legal, but wouldn't they be violating a domestic statute rather than an international treaty? Hypothetically, couldn't each resident of these states emigrate from the US, if they really were concerned with the Constitution? What would happen if a state containing zero American citizens laid claim to that area?

[DVaut1]

We need more "Bort" license plates in the gift shop. I repeat, we are sold out of "Bort" license plates.

-------

More seriously, I've heard Lawrence O'Donnell make arguments (on the McLaughlin Group is where I think I heard him say it) somewhat similar to this; not necessarily the North seceding from the rest of the country, but from wealthier 'blue' states becoming tired of 'red' state welfare and demanding (at the very least) a complete reorganization of the federal system.

If you Google 'Lawrence O'Donnell + red state welfare' or something along those lines, you'll find some links relating to his idea, I'm sure - as I seem to remember it causing a small raucus on right-wing message boards/blogs and the like. When I heard his explanation, I didn't find it very reasonable - but I never studied his idea in depth, and can't remember the details now. Given the nature of pundit yaking, I doubt he thought about it seriously either; but I don't think you're alone for 'wondering' this.

For those who don't know, O'Donnell is a former Democratic Hill staffer, author, pundit, writer for the West Wing, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
ot necessarily the North seceding from the rest of the country, but from wealthier 'blue' states becoming tired of 'red' state welfare and demanding (at the very least) a complete reorganization of the federal system.

[/ QUOTE ]

The irony of Democrats complaining about the blue states "supporting" the poorer red states is priceless. Hypocrisy knowns no bounds for some people.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
The irony of Democrats complaining about the blue states "supporting" the poorer red states is priceless. Hypocrisy knowns no bounds for some people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhat ironically, I think (altough better economists than I can come refute me) that, if we assume red states are actually just clientele-welfare states, suckling at the breast of the higher-tax paying blue states, we could use the implications of such an assumption to make an argument for a flax tax model that appeals to blue state voters. So while conservatives may bristle at the notion that some red states are tantamount to leeches, they could possibly use such an argument as a spring-board to justify flat tax policies --> and more importantly, find political backing for such models in blue-state areas.

[SheetWise]

Check out Free State Project.

[DVaut1]

[ QUOTE ]
Check out Free State Project.

[/ QUOTE ]

Live free or die. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Autocratic]

[ QUOTE ]
Check out Free State Project.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, cool, the officially picked NH. I remember when they started it up and were still deciding on a state. Should be interesting, but I can't see it working.

[thatpfunk]

I think CA seceding would be a little more realistic. We could do it easily.

[lehighguy]

It would be a civil war.

[jcx]

If the north would have just let the south go quietly in the first place this wouldn't be an issue today. And don't be fooled by statistics. An enormous amount of wealth is concentrated in NY and surrounding states because that is the beating heart of our nations' financial system. But much of that wealth originates in "flyover country". A large percentage of the countrys food, mineral wealth and natural resources is domiciled in the freeloading red states. You also have the problem of figuring out who's going to defend your new progressive paradise, since you won't have all those Kansas and Mississippi farmboys at your disposal.

With that said, I support the right of any state to withdraw from the union at any time. The sad truth is they cannot, and would face severe consequences if it was tried.