Missed AK Out of Position Gives Me Trouble (Two Hands)

bobbyi · #1 07-17-2005, 07:34 PM

Let's call the opponents unknown because I am interested in how to play these in the general case.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: (9 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP bets, Hero calls, BB folds.

River: (8 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO calls, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (9.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 12.20 BB

baronzeus · #2 07-17-2005, 07:36 PM

Calling the 1st hand HU is fine but I Think calling the 2nd hand with CO to act behind you is -EV

dhaimon · #3 07-17-2005, 08:11 PM

I bet turn in both these hands. It beats check calling for sure. Usually check fold river

sy_or_bust · #4 07-17-2005, 09:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I bet turn in both these hands. It beats check calling for sure

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think so. In both hands you have as many as 10 outs on the turn, so you're calling a raise. I like check/calling both hands, though I'd much rather bet the first board than the second.

marand · #5 07-17-2005, 09:39 PM

I think hand 1 is fine, but fold the river in hand 2.
Checking the turn in hand 2 is better I think. Your hand is not really worth much here and there is no way you are going to make them both fold. You have 4 outs to a straight, but your A and K outs are tainted. I would guess that you on average has about 6 outs here (perhaps only 4 if you get raised). It sucks if the turn action goes bet, call, raise since you will be forced to call getting 10-1 odds (11-1 if the caller also calls).

Monty Cantsin · #6 07-17-2005, 09:57 PM

Yeah, looks familiar!

This looks like how I might play these, except I'm probably folding the river in hand 2.

Another thing you can do these situations is check the flop.

There's no law saying the last pre-flop raiser has to make a continuation bet on the flop. Take hand 1 for instance, the pot isn't gigantic, you're not that worried about giving free cards and you wouldn't mind one yourself.

In addition, not making the obvious continuation bet can raise alarm bells in observant opponents or at least throw them off their rhythm.

If MP bets the flop you can consider a check/raise, exerting maximum pressure on the BB, or you could simply call.

If the flop gets checked through you can consider betting out on the turn because you "obviously missed your flop checkraise".

Ducking the flop autobet can lead to all kinds of interesting lines. I don't see any major malfunctions with how you played these though.

/mc

helpmeout · #7 07-17-2005, 10:14 PM

Check the turn on both, no need to bet an unimproved AK against 2 opponents after they called the flop.

The flop is likely to have both of them so the likelyhood of a checkraise is too great.

You have 10 outs for both so you want to see the river.

Its also better to give them the opportunity to bluff the turn instead of the river. Most people will bluff the turn then check through on the river instead of firing again.

This allows you to see a showdown for 1BB instead of 2 with an unimproved AK.