example: why you reraise flop

irishpint · #1 04-30-2005, 05:30 PM

So i called his raise, which meant im check calling all the way to the end since i didnt learn enough about him having the ace or not. had a reraise and he capped, then i can fold unimproved for sure. the way i played it i just rolled over and let him beat bets out of me.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 6 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Duerig · #2 04-30-2005, 05:32 PM

What line would you take if you 3bet and he calls?

irishpint · #3 04-30-2005, 05:40 PM

good question. i would bet out, folding to a raise. this particular time i'd still lose money since im down in the hand, but if im in control maybe a scare card hits (3rd to a flush or straight) or the board pairs or he doesn't like his kicker, etc. and i get him to fold an Ace.

Shillx · #4 04-30-2005, 05:51 PM

why you reraise flop

Let's say that you are UTG with a hand like A9s. He raises the flop and then you reraise...how much do you think he likes his hand? Probably not very much. All you are going to do is make him go into a shell because he will think that you have a hand like AK. Reraising the flop doesn't nothing for you since the only hand that he can really get aggressive with is 7x (remember he doesn't know that you are 3-betting with just KK). He isn't going to cap a hand like A9 since it doesn't figure to be good in this spot. This is why raising for information sucks...it is not reliable. When you 3-bet the flop with KK he will put you on AK most of the time and call you down with AT or whatever.

Here is how I would often times play this hand: Check/call all the way.

Brad

Entity · #5 04-30-2005, 05:57 PM

Note: reraising and calling are not the only two options here.

DeathDonkey · #6 04-30-2005, 06:02 PM

I would just bet/fold the flop.

-DeathDonkey

istewart · #7 04-30-2005, 06:04 PM

I think Shillx's line is pretty cool, and not something I do often, so maybe I need to.

I think this is a fairly simple flop fold the way it went down though.

Disconnected · #8 04-30-2005, 06:18 PM

I'm trying to think the following line through out loud, not sure it's optimal. Would love some comments.

Try for a check-raise on the flop. If he's got an ace, it's probably a weaker ace, since he would have raised pre-flop with a strong one. He would bet, but would probably just call your check-raise. He might also try to bet with nothing to see if he could take the pot down. Or, it might get checked through, which would be unfortunate if we're ahead.

On the turn, if it was checked through or your check-raise was just called, we bet out. We might be able to fold him there, or else, he's probably only going to call (again, I'm putting him on weak ace at best).

At any point after the flop check-raise, if he is aggressive (3-bet the flop or raise the turn), we can call down. If you thoght you wanted a cheap showdown, you could probably even check the river. He might be afraid of another check-raise with a weak ace, but I'd also be afraid if it checked through, we'd lose a bet when ahead.

Assuming that's just FPS and potentially either missing value or giving too much, I would say that betting out the flop as you did is cool. When you're raised, it's probably time to go into WA/WB mode.

The main reason I'm toying with the alternate line above is that I'm wondering if we have a realistic chance to fold a weak ace here, given we were the pre-flop aggressor and are representing a high ace with a flop check-raise and leading the turn.

irishpint · #9 04-30-2005, 06:38 PM

why should I put him on an Ace because he raised me? if i was in his situation id raise this, too. even without the ace. right?

Disconnected · #10 04-30-2005, 10:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why should I put him on an Ace because he raised me? if i was in his situation id raise this, too. even without the ace. right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, you don't give him full credit for the ace just because of the raise. But it does put you in a WA/WB situation, don't you think?