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  #1  
Old 11-11-2004, 11:16 AM
blahblah blahblah is offline
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Default Perhaps too abstract...

Hopefully I can communicate enough information to make this worthwhile. I'm a beginner to intermediate NLHE player. I prefer only tournaments as I'm pretty bad at limit and side games. I play in the same tournament every week as practice and there is typically 3-4 tables. First place is usually in the range of $1700-$2500 (it's a rebuy tourney) with fourth taking around $200-$300. I have played the tournament 11 times and it has been the most consistent play I've had in my career. I have played in probably about 16 tournaments in my life.

Focusing on the 11 tournaments, I have placed last, 10th, 12th and have made it to the final table 8 times in a row. I have finished in the money twice placing second and fourth for a total of around $1,100. The last 2 times I played were the times I finished 10th and 12th.

I want to make it into the money but more importantly, I want to win. Not for the sake of making more money but for the sake of winning!

I have two questions:
1) is the consistency of my placing a sign of good play? Or is consistently not making money a sign that I just don't get it?
2) any guidance as to what I can focus on, what critical skills you all think are necessary to start to advance 2-3 places in standings?

Keep in mind that I rarely play against the same players at the final table in this tournament. In other words, I'm probably the most consistent at this tournament though there are a number of people that come close to my consistency.

Also, I study poker A LOT. I read these forums 4-5 times a day (thank you all for the great advice) and I have read and re-read every poker book ever printed. I have been playing seriously for maybe 6 months.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 11-11-2004, 11:54 AM
slickterp slickterp is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

i would say that your consistency in finish high is a good sign that you are doing well. several questions:
-what kinds of hands do you find yourself being knocked out with at the final table?
-how is your stack when you get to the final table, in relation to others?
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  #3  
Old 11-11-2004, 12:04 PM
Fabian Fabian is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

You seem to be heading in the right direction. As I'm sure others will tell you, "your sample size is too small" to draw any solid conclusions, but you seem serious and not exaggerating your own abilities to yourself.

I recommend reading Tournament Poker for Advanced Players by David Sklansky if you haven't done so already. There are many useful concepts in there on how to play to sneak up a few places on the prize ladder, and also how to play in order to maximize your chance of placing first, etc etc. Those two areas you mention you want tips in, but they are sort of contradictory; if you want to improve your place in the standings a bit you might want to take less chances (on the final table) and not commit all your chips in situations you only are a 50% favorite, for example. However, if your goal is to finish first (for glory or whatever) you probably should take those close gambles instead of passing on them and wait for better opportunities. This will result in more tournament wins, but also more of busting out just before the money. Personally I think you should NOT make hazardous plays in order to finish first, but rather play to maximize your overall $-EV.

Good luck and keep studying!
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  #4  
Old 11-11-2004, 12:46 PM
dealer_toe dealer_toe is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

I'm not sure what kind of players you're up against, but it being a weekly tourney, there are probably some returning players that you should be pretty comfortable going up against. By comfortable I mean you know their tendancies. A good time to pick up a lot of chips is right before the money. If top 5 get into the money, when there are around 8 or so players, you should be the most aggressive. You should attack the players that look to be in about 3rd through 5th. These players are right on the bubble and will lay down a lot more hands to you. If you go after the shorter stacks they have nothing to lose and will likely call you with anything decent, and the bigger stacks are just that, bigger stacks. I get in ruts like this too where i'll be barely in the money, or 5 or 6 tourneys in a row i'll finish in 12th or 13th when the final table gets into the money. You gotta learn to pick up those "dead pots" i call em when its winding down to getting into the money.
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  #5  
Old 11-11-2004, 01:48 PM
blahblah blahblah is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

slickterp - thanks for taking interest. Last night I got knocked out AJo against AKs. Usually I'm getting knocked out in a race (my overcards to their pair or vice versa) or I go all in and find myself dominated. I generally play premium hands only at/near the final table and adhere pretty tightly to the Gap Concept.

Your second question is a big concern for me. A majority of the time I'm one of the top shortest stacks. In general I would say I rarely make it to the table as one of the top 5 biggest. At least three tournaments I can remember I was the last or close to it. However, when I was in the money I literally went from dead last, shortest stack to fourth place. The other time (when I took second) I would say I was the moderate stack and got some very good cards.
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  #6  
Old 11-11-2004, 01:50 PM
blahblah blahblah is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

Fabian, thanks for the guidance. Tournament Poker for Advanced Players by David Sklansky is currently my bible. It's in my backpack everyday and I've read it cover to cover twice. I now jump around from section to section depending on the area of weakness I think I need to target. Part of the issue is that I currently am having a tough time understanding exactly what to focus on. I feel like I'm playing "good" poker but I just can't seem to make money doing so.
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  #7  
Old 11-11-2004, 01:56 PM
blahblah blahblah is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

dealer_toe, perhaps you can help me with this:

"You should attack the players that look to be in about 3rd through 5th."

I'm not terribly aggressive in these circumstances though I understand what you're saying. I have been pretty good about understanding how a weaker player might play and whether or not I can push them around. However, it seems REALLY rare that the circumstances come up that I'm in a position to attack.

For instance, last night I was against a player who was as easy to read as a children's book. If he raised double the blinds he had A and something large. If he called, his hand was marginal and usually a large reraise from me would get him out. I made a decent amount from this player in 2 or 3 contests with him. However, the instances when I had the chance to attack were rare. Or more importantly when I NEEDED to attack I didn't necessarily have the right cards.

For example: he might do his typical call the big blind with a mediocre hand that probably contained an A. I would look down at something like 98o and have position on him. I COULD raise...but a call from him would put a decent percentage of my chips at risk and unless I hit my flop attacking would be difficult and put my tournament life at risk. He was larger than I was.

Any advice on strategies for attacking?
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2004, 03:08 PM
slickterp slickterp is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

i find that getting agressive near the money is good, especially when you have a short stack. you must double through at least once, probably twice to get into the money anyway, and if you're really short stacked, you can get multiple callers and triple through (but only want this with the best hands). the thing is, when shortstacked, many big stack players (the worse ones) will call w/ mediocre hands just to try and bust you. i say all in w/ medium to lg. suited connectors, and any pair, plus semi connecting paints (including tens).
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2004, 03:40 PM
Reef Reef is offline
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Default Re: Perhaps too abstract...

remember, tournys are usually either feast or famine. You're probably on a hot streak now. However, if your results are similar still in 200 of these... then I'd retract the previous statement and say that you were one of the top tourny players in that field.
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