Live 15/30 Hand

[onegymrat]

Table is a full main game at Hawaiian Gardens. The game is very good. Three limpers to me in CO and I raise with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Button folds, BB calls as do others. Five to the flop.

FLOP: K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

BB checks, EP (very loose player) bets, EP1 (sees every hand) raises. MP folds. I cold-call. BB calls. EP now 3-bets. All call. Four to the turn.

TURN: J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks. EP bets. EP1 calls. I call. BB folds. Three to the river.

RIVER: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

EP bets. EP1 calls. I call.

Anyone play this differently?

[Steve Giufre]

I think three betting the flop is a much better than cold calling that spot. I wouldnt like my hand that much on the turn, but this pot is real big so I would probably show it down as well. Agaist the right kind of player I guess you could make a tough laydown but I'm not sure you can here. Once you get to the river you have to overcall. Since he three bet the flop I'm more likely to give him a king unless he has J8. I also think there is a reasonable chance he flopped top bottom, and you counterfitted him with the jack. I think if you three bet the flop the hand will play out much easier most of the time.

BTW, what was your plan is a brick fell on the turn and you were led into?

[onegymrat]

Hi Steve,

My play had been very tight, as usual, so EP's flop bet into me (pf raiser) screamed of teasing me to raise so he could 3-bet. The fool who got in the way (EP1) clearly has a weaker king (he would have raised pf with KA, KQ or KJ), so that left me to think that I was pretty much behind and wanted to desperately see a queen in the near future. EP would not have led into me with a draw.

I did not like my play AT ALL. I should have either dumped in on the turn, or done what I did exactly. I contemplated 3-betting the flop for a split second but wanted to see EP's reaction to the EP1 raise. It didn't really matter, because I played it passively anyway.

If the turn was a brick, I would have raised in an attempt for a free river.

[Michael Davis]

Why is the range of hands for the flop bettor so narrow? The board is so drawy that it seems fairly wide to me. I think you should threebet the flop and go from there. Given that you called, I don't think you can consider at all folding in this hand, as you haven't ever demonstrated your true strength. If you threebet the flop and continue to get raised, maybe you can find a fold.

-Michael

[onegymrat]

Hi Michael,

Why is the range of hands for the flop bettor so narrow?

Villain in EP is loose and a bit tricky at times, but not naive. He bet into a field of four with me being the pf raiser. I didn't like that at all. He would have attempted a check-raise with only a king. He could have been betting with a straight draw or something, but my gut said he was not drawing. I guess you had to be there. My thinking was that seeing his actions, whether to 3-bet the flop, would give me a better idea on where I was. I don't think I was thinking straight regardless.

[Lawrence Ng]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in EP is loose and a bit tricky at times, but not naive. He bet into a field of four with me being the pf raiser. I didn't like that at all. He would have attempted a check-raise with only a king. He could have been betting with a straight draw or something, but my gut said he was not drawing. I guess you had to be there. My thinking was that seeing his actions, whether to 3-bet the flop, would give me a better idea on where I was. I don't think I was thinking straight regardless.

[/ QUOTE ]

KJ, or 88 is a definite possibility. EP2 definitely has a King - no kicker from the looks of it.

My first guess is KJ or 88.

Pot is about $270 on the turn, and it's going to cost you $60 to go to showdown. I guess if you are more than 75% sure you are beat here, you can make the laydown, but if you choose to call that turn, you must call the river - pay off in case he has KT or or even K9 or a busted straight draw of QT. (The last one seems very unlikely as if he is a good player he will realize that EP2 will call him down)

I probably would have 3-bet the flop and see how it went from there. But based on how you played it, I think I would have done the same thing. KQ is too strong a hand in too big a pot at this point to fold.

Lawrence

[onegymrat]

Hi Lawrence,

I know you play live only, as do I, so this is what I saw. When the jack hit the turn, the bastard didn't even hesitate to bet. When the queen hit the river, he did the "ol pause as if he didn't like it" move, and then bet out. You're right about calling the turn though, especially with my queen hitting the river, I would have to call it down.

[BurnsvilleCardClub]

Three bet the flop no question and lay off the call button a little bit more!

[onegymrat]

EP had K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for a turned full-house. EP1 did not show.

[Brainwalter]

Never mind, I misread OGR's read.