Flopped bottom set 5-way

schlach · #1 12-23-2005, 11:42 PM

Just sat down, no reads or stats.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP2 ($27.15)
MP3 ($23.55)
CO ($38.35)
Button ($24.50)
SB ($24.25)
BB ($20.10)
Hero ($30.05)
UTG+1 (Villian)/ ($38.25)
MP1 ($4.39)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
Hero calls $0.25, UTG+1 (Villian)/ calls $0.25,
1 fold, MP2 calls $0.25,
MP3 raises to $0.5, CO calls $0.50,
3 folds, Hero calls $0.25,
UTG+1 (Villian)/ calls $0.25, MP2 calls $0.25.

Flop: ($2.85) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero checks, Villian checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($2.85) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
Hero bets $1, Villian calls $1, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds.

River: ($4.85) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $2, Villian raises to $7

1. What do you put Villain on?
2. What's your river action?
3. What else went wrong?

In hindsight, of course it would have been nice to bet the flop, but with four players behind me, I thought a check-raise was a sure thing. Being out of position was costly on this one. I let people draw for free, I gave up bets, and I failed to build the pot or protect my hand. I again bet weak on the turn when I thought I could get a raise/reraise in, but it didn't happen that way, either.

But the river is what makes this hand interesting. I'll post the results later.

#2 12-24-2005, 12:14 AM

if you must go for a check raise and miss, pot the turn and the river. As played, pooooosh as he probably has an 8 (no king) and will call you with your boat. Hard to put him on K8 if he slowplayed two streets. Straight is possible but this is your punishment for missing your checkraise.

DJ Sensei · #3 12-24-2005, 01:21 AM

Yea, you really have to lead the flop. checkraise is all well and good, but unless somebody else has a hand thats already good, you're just gonna scare people with Kx. Or it could check through... leading is a much better play.

As it worked out, yea, go ahead and push. You arent getting away from the hand with your stack if you're beat, but he'll call with A8 or 55.

#4 12-24-2005, 01:22 AM

1. What do you put Villain on?
Trip 8s or a straight. He's representing that the 8 helped him with his river bet, but could have very well made a straight on the turn and just called to induce action from you on the river.

2. What's your river action?
Re-raise to $14 (value bet I guess). What can you be afraid of at this point. If he has K8 that just sucks. He might come over the top but I think that's a risk you should take.

3. What else went wrong?
Not sure if I like the limp UTG with 6s, especially since you just sat down and didn't know the game conditions. What would you have done if someone raised behind you? Also, you're out of position after the flop. Another thing was the turn bet. Not enough IMO. I'd bet the pot and try to take it down right then and there (or at least make them pay), especially with that 8-6-5 board and limpers who could have almost anything.

#5 12-24-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Re-raise to $14 (value bet I guess).

[/ QUOTE ]
I think a push is better. If he raises all in you aren't folding for another $15 are you? Just put him all the way in.

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if I like the limp UTG with 6s, especially since you just sat down and didn't know the game conditions. What would you have done if someone raised behind you? Also, you're out of position after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll limp UTG with 22 in 6max. If someone raises, apply 5/10 rule for calling a raise with a speculative hand preflop. Sets play fine without position, just somewhat less profitably.

#6 12-24-2005, 01:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Re-raise to $14 (value bet I guess).

[/ QUOTE ]
I think a push is better. If he raises all in you aren't folding for another $15 are you? Just put him all the way in.

[/ QUOTE ] Yeah now after thinking it over and reading a few of the replies I agree. Can't get away from this hand if he puts you all in, but you have calling equity as villian probably can't get away from it either.

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if I like the limp UTG with 6s, especially since you just sat down and didn't know the game conditions. What would you have done if someone raised behind you? Also, you're out of position after the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll limp UTG with 22 in 6max. If someone raises, apply 5/10 rule for calling a raise with a speculative hand preflop. Sets play fine without position, just somewhat less profitably.

[/ QUOTE ] True, except missing the check-raise and giving a free card was potentially dangerous. Limping wasn't necessarily a bad play, I thought I'd throw that out there though and see what others had to say about that. Thanks for your insight.

#7 12-24-2005, 01:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll limp UTG with 22 in 6max. If someone raises, apply 5/10 rule for calling a raise with a speculative hand preflop. Sets play fine without position, just somewhat less profitably.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, except missing the check-raise and giving a free card was potentially dangerous.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. This is why I rarely advocate a check-raise. I think I'm going to start a thread about check/raise vs. lead/3bet as soon as I find an appropriate hand(s) to go along with it, because this is a weak point for me.

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for your insight.

[/ QUOTE ]
We're all here to learn, and I appreciate any and all responses to my posts, because I feel that the best way to learn is to try to teach others and then have my teachings critiqued. If that makes any sense [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] On that note, if anyone disagrees with my comment about sets OOP, flame away, I want to hear your input.

#8 12-24-2005, 02:48 AM

My sequence after the preflop action.

$1.75 on the flop. I don't like giving hearts a try and a king will call here. At the NL 25 a donk will call with a pocket pair or mid pair for their "pot odds" here. I doubt you'll waste your set.

If you get someone to come along with you I'd pot the turn. Then if they didn't re-raise you I'm pushing on the river.

In this circumstance I'd re-raise to 17 dollars on the end and call a push if he re pops all in.

schlach · #9 12-24-2005, 01:29 PM

Thanks all, for your replies. If I had it all to do again, I would have led out on the flop with a half-pottish bet, and depending on action, would have pot-bet or overbet on the turn.

I raised $13, thinking the Villain hit his trip 8s. He reraised me all-in and I called. He turned over quads. I was pretty surprised. I didn't play the hand very well, but from your responses, this sounds like a tough board to keep your money on.

Without better reads, I'm thinking that it would not be correct at online small-stakes NL to fold to the reraise all-in, getting 3.5 to 1 on my last $15. I've just lost a few big pots in a row where I moved too hard on my holdings and wanted a check-up from the community on this one.

Thanks for your input.

GivenToFly · #10 12-24-2005, 02:36 PM

i probably bet 2/3 - pot on flop. im not scared of the river....