Loose 20/40 Hold Em Game

[TaintedRogue]

It's loose aggressive and EP limps and MP raises. Two callers to the raise and I'm in the BB with 34 spades.
I call. EP limps a lot with drawing hands and I don't see him re-raising.
10.5 bets in the pot.
Flop: Kc 3c 4d
EP cks, next guy bets, 1 fold, 1 call, I raise. EP folds, MP re-raises, next guy calls 2bets.
18.5 bets in the pot. 3 players.
Turn: [Kc 3c 4d] Qd
MP bets, next guy raises.
My opponents could have all kinds of possible hands here. How would you play it from here?
Results to follow.

[Fianchetto]

From the action it looks like you check-raised the flop. I think a better line is to lead out, and hope you get raised by MP, hopefully this clears the field a little, then you can 3-bet.

Your hand is not a lock, it is actually very vulnerable to redraws if currently best, so I play this one fast. Taking your line I probably would have capped the flop and lead the turn. The way you played it puts you in a tough spot...I might fold depending on my read of the turn raiser, KQ, or a set are very possible.

That's a tough call and I would have to lean more towards folding than check calling it down all the way. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Jeffage]

I would have 4 bet the flop and led the turn. Your put yourself in this tough position by not getting the last raise in on this board, esp. with the club draw out there. It looks like you're against KQ here, but you could be much surer of your laydown if you had taken my approach...if you are the LP player, when you check turn and next guy bets...if you have a king, why not raise, possibly knock the BB out and opt for a free showdown. Though u are prob beat here, you set yourself up to get outplayed by shutting down too quickly.

Jeff

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
From the action it looks like you check-raised the flop. I think a better line is to lead out, and hope you get raised by MP, hopefully this clears the field a little, then you can 3-bet.

Your hand is not a lock, it is actually very vulnerable to redraws if currently best, so I play this one fast. Taking your line I probably would have capped the flop and lead the turn. The way you played it puts you in a tough spot...I might fold depending on my read of the turn raiser, KQ, or a set are very possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

As Jeffage said; I really should have 4bet the flop. The odds are really good that I have the best hand, only having to worry about a set of Ks. I really shouldn't get fancy out of position, but the way this table was playing, I really believed Kx was going to bet the turn.
My reasoning was: I believed I knew one guy had to have a pair of Ks and the other the flush draw. They weren't going anywhere, and with me capping the flop and leading the turn, I'm telling them I hit the flop hard and don't just have a draw and I might not get much action on the $40 streets. Although the top pair hand probably would have called me, as well as the draw, I wasn't going to get 2 bets in on turn.
I was thinking, that if the turn was non-threatening, I could ck/raise again. I did not believe it would go ck/ck/ck, as the pair has to bet or let the draws freeroll.

[TaintedRogue]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have 4 bet the flop and led the turn. Your put yourself in this tough position by not getting the last raise in on this board, esp. with the club draw out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Help me out here, as I don't understand how I put myself in a bad position, i.e. the club draw will be calling the turn bets. Are you saying the club draw will muck if the board pairs, so I should get the $$ in now?

[ QUOTE ]
It looks like you're against KQ here, but you could be much surer of your laydown if you had taken my approach...

[/ QUOTE ]

True! But I would also have to put more money in the pot on the turn with the worse hand. But, I still needed to lead out on the turn, if, I didn't think I was sure I could ck/raise. I was pretty damn sure.

[ QUOTE ]
if you are the LP player, when you check turn and next guy bets...if you have a king, why not raise, possibly knock the BB out and opt for a free showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is why I called the turn and I still have outs to KQ.

[ QUOTE ]
Though u are prob beat here, you set yourself up to get outplayed by shutting down too quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, there are 13 big bets in the pot if the other player calls, so I'll get better pot odds to draw to the 4 outer, so I'm not folding.

[Jeffage]

You 4-bet the flop because your hand is likely best, but is not such a powerhouse that I would wait to checkraise the turn with it. A free card would be bad and against a couple of players I probably wouldn't get fancy with bottom two on a draw board here. Also, when you check the turn if it goes bet-raise, you will be in a tough spot and you may find yourself outplayed off the best hand...that alone is enough to make continued betting the best line in my mind.

[ QUOTE ]
This is why I called the turn and I still have outs to KQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, if you bet and it gets raised and reraised you can now easily fold b/c you must be beat. If you check and it gets bet-raised, it's still close to a fold in my mind because one of them likely has you beat. But your turn misplay has opened the door to you folding the best hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, there are 13 big bets in the pot if the other player calls, so I'll get better pot odds to draw to the 4 outer, so I'm not folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

The original bettor could make it three bets.

Jeff

[TaintedRogue]

Thanks. And you can bet on me not going for a ck/raise in this type situation again. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[TaintedRogue]

First guy had AK, 2nd guy, who raised the turn had AK of diamonds.
The river brought a 4 that I bet out on and got two callers.