Understanding Aggression Factor for Loose Players

[Lmn55d]

There's been some talk on here about how AF numbers are lower when a person is seeing a lot of flops. This is because they have weaker hands on average and are forced to do more calling. Thus they have to do a serious amount of betting and raising to make this fraction [ (bet+raise)/(call)] a large number. Thus a player with VPIP 70 and AF of 1 is fairly aggressive.

What I haven't seen posted, however, is an attempt at a conversion. FOr instance, a player with a VPIP of 30 and an aggression factor of 3 is equivalent to a player with VPIP 60 and AF X. Has anyone attempted to do such a table. Is anyone willing?

I think this is pretty important because I still don't have a great grasp on understanding AF for loose players. For players with VPIP similar to mine, I just compare their's to mine.

Here's one thing I've realized that might be useful. Player A has vpip 75 and player B has vpip 30. The difference in true aggression between an A with .5 AF and an A with 1 AF is much larger than the difference between a B with AF of 2.5 and a B with AF of 3. In other words, for a given increase in AF number, a player who sees more flops will have a much larger actual increase in aggression than one who sees less.

This is easy to understand when you think about the AF fraction. Loose players have a very large denominator, so an increase of X in the numerator (more bets and raises) will have a relatively small increase in the total fraction, even though their aggression is significantly greater.

Has this been discussed before? Does anyone have any more input?

[bank]

Good question. I don't think i'm qualified/knowledgable enough to answer. Better players please help.

[sublime]

[ QUOTE ]
Good question. I don't think i'm qualified/knowledgable enough to answer. Better players please help.

[/ QUOTE ]

JR is usually good with this stuff. Hope hes around.

[cartman]

I think Jeff W has the best command that I've seen over this topic.

Cartman

[bank]

Bump.

[Nietzsche]

I see this argument over and over and I still don't understand it. Why does someone with a high VPIP have to call more? If anything he should call less and fold more.

[Lmn55d]

you are right, but folding isn't taken into account in the AF equation. It is only (bet% + raise%)/ (call%)...so if he folds 90% of the time, but never calls when he chooses to stay in, his AF will be super high.

[odawg09090]

Sthief09 or Jeff W please chime in. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[imported_leader]

[ QUOTE ]
I see this argument over and over and I still don't understand it. Why does someone with a high VPIP have to call more? If anything he should call less and fold more.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that you're assuming they play well post flop when they are making massive preflop mistakes every other hand. If you’re calling PF with J3s on a regular basis, are you really folding when you flop bottom pair?

[Nietzsche]

Wierd for some reason I always thought folding entered into that equation since TAGs with high AF factors nearly always are folding too much.