T8s from Big Blind - Drawing Value Bet against 3 opponents???

Opponents:
SB - Very Tight and Very passive both before flop and after
Button - Loooooooooooose Fishy......
UTG - Little loose but nothing out of the ordinary


Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero.

Flop: (8 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls, Hero ?????.


As I look through my past hands I'm looking for hands where I've correctly/incorrectly applied calculated aggression.

On the Flop I call the raise OOP because I'm suited and I get to close the action. On the flop I hit and OESD giving me 7 outs (I'm discounting by one. I'm not that scared of the flush so I'm counting only one of the 2 cards that make my straight but make the flush)

7 outs gives me about a 27% chance to make the straight by the river and I'm only putting in 25%.

Is this an opportunity to apply some raising pressure to push the small edge? Or do I wait for the turn. As it is just calling will still give good odds on the turn If I'm UI and still need to peel another card

...I'm pretty sure they will never see the straight if I make it.

[bwana devil]

hero calls. if you raise trying for a free card you risk the possiblity of a 3 bet from the pf raiser.

...and dont forget the back door flush possiblity.

[jaxUp]

This is a call. the 2-flush board slightly devalues your straight draw and puts c/r at best break-even. It's even worse if we consider that sometimes UTG reraises and folds somebody out.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

The Back Door Flush draw pretty much counteracts any discounting of straight outs. I think we can raise here against three opponents.

[jaxUp]

missed the BDFD, but I still say call. UTG 3-betting will force somebody out. And the times when UTG doesn't 3-bet I think there's a lot of value to being able to c/r the turn.

[Disconnected]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG - Little loose but nothing out of the ordinary

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone not call the UTG raise preflop?

As for the flop, I'd check/call here. If you make the top end of the straight, you'll be subject to a redraw. I'm not sure you have an equity edge on the flop. If UTG 3-bets you, may also lose button and SB.

[jaxUp]

pf call is a must with that killer relative c/r position

[@bsolute_luck]

everyone says call? then could you explain this thread: JTs may be spewing where everyone is gun ho to c/r on an even worse board and that one didn't even include a BDFD????

where is there consistency? if there was a c/r there for value, then this should be a check/raise for value. both have the same # of people between the flop bettor and hero: 2.

FWIW: i said call in that hand and i say call in this hand.

[aK13]

Your edge is pretty small with the 2flush.

Call. Also, if you hit, you have a chance to check/raise everybody.

[ QUOTE ]
everyone says call? then could you explain this thread: JTs may be spewing where everyone is gun ho to c/r on an even worse board and that one didn't even include a BDFD????

where is there consistency? if there was a c/r there for value, then this should be a check/raise for value. both have the same # of people between the flop bettor and hero: 2.

[/ QUOTE ]
There was one more player in that hand and therefore a bigger edge.

FWIW: I said check/raise in that hand and i say call in this hand.

If I make my hand or a diamond drops, I have great position for a value c\r on the turn.