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#1
03-22-2005, 05:10 PM
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Calling all-in on a draw
Two table tournament, 8 players left, top 4 make the money. Blinds 100/200. Three players have T1000 or less, the others range from T4000 to T7000. Hero is in CO with T4000.
UTG (T4000) raises to 400. Folded to Hero who calls with 8d 9d. SB and BB both call. Flop is 4h 7d Jd UTG goes all-in, Hero does what? I don't have any more details of the hand, such as player reads or SB and BB stack sizes. Also, I don't like the preflop call, but the issue I'm most interested in here is calling someone else's all-in with only a draw, assuming you're getting the pot odds needed. In general (excluding unique situations such as being on the bubble) should pot odds always rule the day or is there something to be said for folding and living to fight another day? Rich 
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#3
03-22-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: Calling all-in on a draw
Unfortunately I don't know the prize distribution or any other details. Let's assume it's a fairly standard payout structure. This is a hand that a friend brought up for discussion and it got me thinking about the general topic of calling all-in on a draw.
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#6
03-22-2005, 05:31 PM
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Re: Calling all-in on a draw
alright, assume that it's 1:2:3:4 for spots 4-1 (as it is on party). also assume that SB and BB are the reasonably big stacks, cause shorties should be pushing/folding there.
there's 1600 in the middle, and villain bets 3600. you're something like 47% to win heads up against a 1 pair hand. so calling wins you ~700 chips in expectation. but if villain has Ad Kd then you're worse off, and that's the kind of hand i would expect to see from a 2x pot push on the flop. you're also going to be hating life if one of the other blinds calls with the nut flush draw. if anyone has a set, that also takes a bite out of your equity. it's close, but i think it's a fold.
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#7
03-22-2005, 05:33 PM
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Re: Calling all-in on a draw
That's a wicked draw. I'm calling here since money isn't in my mind yet and even if he has a set (yeah, with that bet) I'm not in terrible shape.
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#8
03-22-2005, 05:36 PM
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Re: Calling all-in on a draw
I agree.
If it was like an inside wheel draw with the nut flush draw...it might persuade me a little more towards calling. Im not big on calling to less than nuts here.
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#9
03-22-2005, 05:44 PM
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Re: Calling all-in on a draw
edit: When I initially wrote all of this I was assuming this was a bigger MTT with a top heavy pay out structure. Now that I reread it, I guess you aren't too close to the bubble here and that changes all of my advice - but I don't feel like copping out and deleting it.
I'm going to respond without reading other people's responses since I think I'll learn more doing it that way. I think the pre-flop call is simply horrible. Why put in money here against a player who can bust you with such a mediocre holding? I would wait for a better opportunity than this to invest in the pot and this is simply based on your stack size, the other stacks at the table and how close you are to the money. Maybe I'm wrong but this seems like a very easy standard fold to me. On the flop, fold again. This is the problem of calling pre-flop - you got just about as good of flop as you could hope for but you have to fold because you should be thinking about survival at this point. You are on the bubble and should make the money with your stack size and solid play. Although this is probably a decent call in a live game this seems like a fold in a tourney this close to the money. [ QUOTE ] In general (excluding unique situations such as being on the bubble) should pot odds always rule the day or is there something to be said for folding and living to fight another day? [/ QUOTE ] You are on teh bubble in this spot and it is unique. In general I think pot odds are the way to go, but not in this situation due to how close you are to cashing.
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