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#1
10-20-2003, 10:06 PM
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River check-raise?
Party 2/4. I open-raise two off the button with 88, CO coldcalls, BB calls.
CO is a player who thinks he is an expert, but actually plays just loose enough so that he can lose consistently at a slow rate, and can blame his losses on others. He is presently out to get me, as he seems to think I am costing him money by betting, or something. BB is a borderline LAG. Flop - Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] BB checks, I bet, CO raises, BB coldcalls, I call. Turn - 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Checked around (doh!). River - 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Checked around. Comments/results in next post. -- Homer 
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#2
10-20-2003, 10:11 PM
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Comments / Results
Comments
Flop/Turn - After the flop, I was almost certain that I was ahead of CO and fairly certain that I was ahead of LAG, though his coldcall did worry me somewhat. I decided to call, planning to check to CO on the turn, and raise his bet if BB did not checkraise. In retrospect, I think that a stop-n-go would have been better, since BB's flop coldcall and/or a scare card on the turn could cause CO to check it through. River - I was 100% sure that I had the best hand here, but did not think that CO would be able to resist betting when checked to, especially given the fact that he was on tilt and was out to get me. In retrospect, I should have realized that his most likely hand was either a 3 or a small pocket pair, and that he would be happy to get to showdown since his hand was weak and he had two opponents. I'm almost certain that checkraising would have been successful had the hand been heads-up. Results CO - 77 BB - A4h -- Homer
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#3
10-20-2003, 10:20 PM
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Re: River check-raise?
Why no river bet Homer after the checked turn? I would think a 3,5, and lower PP would call and maybe even AK, but that might be to easy to say seeing the results. Wait longer to post the results [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
EDIT:I skimmed over the river check to the CO to bet, sorry
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#4
10-20-2003, 10:21 PM
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Re: Comments / Results
I try checkraises like this from time to time. I feel like an idiot when they miss and a genius when they hit. I think you are somewhat better off doing it when headsup, though, rather than 3-way. Your mark is less likely to bet into two opponents than one, and it's very unlikely that you will get two bets from both players and have the best hand with your unimproved eights.
Pulling this move from time to time is a very important part of your poker arsenal, though. Discouraging people from making thin value bets against you after you show weakness like this is important against certain opponent types.
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#5
10-20-2003, 10:22 PM
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Re: River check-raise?
I think once the BB checks on the river you can be fairly certain no one has a Q. CO would bet the turn with a Q and BB would bet the river after his turn check-raise fails. I think the only way you are losing this hand is if the CO has a higher pocket, like 99 or TT. I would bet the river and expect to take it down.
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#6
10-20-2003, 10:29 PM
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Re: Comments / Results
I think you played the turn right. If the BB has a Q and the CO bets, you save yourself money when the BB check-raises. If the BB does not have a Q when the CO bets, then the BB either calls or fold, but either way you know you are ahead of BB and then have to decide if you are ahead of CO or not. If the CO checks it through, you still get the info you need since the BB will definitely come out firing on the flop if he has the Q, fearing it will get checked through again.
On the other hand, if you bet and the BB has the Q, then he is going to check-raise you. Even if you lay your hand down at this point you still paid 1 BB for information you could have gotten for free.
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#7
10-20-2003, 10:32 PM
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Re: River check-raise?
I think the only way you are losing this hand is if the CO has a higher pocket, like 99 or TT. I would bet the river and expect to take it down.
True, but you shouldn't bet the river simply because you think you have the best hand. I was 100% sure that I had the best hand on the river, but checked anyway because at the time I thought checkraising would have a greater EV. After reflecting for a bit, I believe my thinking was off. However, that doesn't mean you should always bet the river when you think you have the best hand. -- Homer
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#8
10-20-2003, 10:43 PM
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Re: River check-raise?
I agree with you, but my thought on betting the river wasn't "I have the best hand, I must bet." My thought was, the CO suddenly didn't like his hand on the turn so what makes me think he will bet now? Your hoping someone with a weaker hand then yours will bet out for you. Now, if the CO was a LAG then I think this play may be ok.
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