Raising the river

brettbrettr · #1 06-26-2005, 02:24 PM

I've been thinking a lot about this play after reading about it in the archives. Hopefully, someone has a link b/c I can't seem to find it, but the gist of it is raising the river in the face of agression with a good, not great hand--the example in the archives used KK which was deemed to be too good a hand, something more like TPTK....Anyway, the theory, I think, is that opponents are less apt to reraise the river than other streets and you're essentially making a value raise. Here's a hand where I used this play, and another where I thought of it. Let me know what you think:

Foxwoods, 4/8 game. I open raise with AKo in MP. My image is lag and I see people whispering. Really I haven't done anything out of the ordinary to deserve it, I'm just betting/raising and missing. One of the whisperers (who seems tight passive) calls in the SB and its HU for 5 sbs.

Flop A44

SB bets, I raise, SB 3-bets, I call.

Turn (6 BB's): 9

SB bets, I call

River (8 bbs): 9

SB bets, I raise...

__________________________________________________ ____

Here's another hand where I thought about using the same play, villan is an unknown

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (8.20 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero ????

This seems like a good place for it, no? I mean, even 2 pair would have a hard time 3-betting me here even though the river changed just about nothing. His likely hands are draws or 2 pair--the draw won't call, the former probably will. I think the only hand he's 3 betting with here certainly has me beat.

Think I should raise this river?

mantasm · #2 06-26-2005, 02:49 PM

Thanks for making a good general strategy post.

I like the first hand. You have probably pwned the rock's aq.

In the second it seems you think he has either a hand that beats you or a bluff, so this wouldn't be a value raise. You'll either be called be a better hand or fold a worse hand. A turn raise would be better because then you get the extra bet from the draw.

BWebb · #3 06-26-2005, 03:00 PM

Hand 1 is perfect, I've been doing this more often as well.

[ QUOTE ]
His likely hands are draws or 2 pair--the draw won't call, the former probably will.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then why raise? Better hands will call or 3-bet, worse hands will fold. There is too much that beats you on that board, just call.

mantasm · #4 06-26-2005, 03:02 PM

Do you agree with raising the turn in hand 2? You're probably ahead and have lots of audis if you're not.

BWebb · #5 06-26-2005, 03:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Do you agree with raising the turn in hand 2? You're probably ahead and have lots of audis if you're not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing. I think I like that, but it would suck to get 3-bet.

brettbrettr · #6 06-26-2005, 04:16 PM

I agree the second hand is not a good spot for it.

As for the turn play, I'm undecided. Yes, it would suck to be three-bet. I think a call is good b/c if he is drawing and misses he might bluff again on the river. Clearly I'm running the risk of letting him pay one bet to snag a card that beats me...