Limping with aces

AtticusFinch · #1 09-08-2005, 06:00 AM

I'd call the below hand a fine example of how not to play aces, generally. Or is it? Does the chance of winning a bigger pot justify the risk in a multi?

How about during the rebuy period?

In either case, even if it's a good idea in theory, this guy is playing with fire by limping his rockets from that late position. I'd be much more sympathetic if he were UTG.

Comments?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) converter

BB (t7555)
UTG (t1604)
UTG+1 (t11260)
MP1 (t6025)
MP2 (t3503)
CO (t6785)
Hero (t8340)
SB (t6445)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t150, 3 folds, CO calls t150, Hero calls t150, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t675) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets t750, Hero folds, BB raises to t7405, UTG calls t1454 (All-In), CO calls t5885 (All-In).

Turn: (t16169) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Is limping with aces a reasonable play during the rebuy period? How a

River: (t16169) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t16169

Results in white below: 
BB has Qc 7s (two pair, queens and sevens).
UTG has 3h Kh (flush, king high).
CO has Ah Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins t11132. UTG wins t5037.

MeanGreenTT · #2 09-08-2005, 06:09 AM

UTG...HUGE DONKEY?

AtticusFinch · #3 09-08-2005, 06:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
UTG...HUGE DONKEY?

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, but not really the point, eh? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Apathy · #4 09-08-2005, 06:31 AM

I don't really see a lot of value in this play unless the stack sizes are a certain way and the blinds or button play very aggresivly PF against limpers which is rare to see online except from a certain type of (usually) good opponent.

The aces flop call is highly debatable.

Sure UTG is a donk for playing the hand in the first place but that flop call is really not that bad at all depending on the stage of tourney/payouts etc.

donny5k · #5 09-08-2005, 06:38 AM

In this particular situation the money is way too deep to make this play ever. In situations where you have like 12BB and someone will pot commit themselves with top pair against you, it has merit. Even then, with limpers in front of you, a raise is necessary. The flop call by CO in your example is bad.

SixgunSam · #6 09-08-2005, 06:48 AM

The problem is that most people who do it aren't disciplined enough to lay down the hand when they get outflopped, as was the case here.

ekky · #7 09-08-2005, 07:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
In this particular situation the money is way too deep to make this play ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Rite.. but you also need to offer yourself some protection if you later want to limp with maybe a s/c or a small pair. If you always raise your big hands UTG, and limp with your potential hands, its going to make you too exploitable.

This isn't really much to do with the OP's post, more as a response to you saying you shouls never limp AA.

Dave D · #8 09-08-2005, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call the below hand a fine example of how not to play aces, generally. Or is it? Does the chance of winning a bigger pot justify the risk in a multi?

How about during the rebuy period?

In either case, even if it's a good idea in theory, this guy is playing with fire by limping his rockets from that late position. I'd be much more sympathetic if he were UTG.

Comments?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t150 (8 handed) converter

BB (t7555)
UTG (t1604)
UTG+1 (t11260)
MP1 (t6025)
MP2 (t3503)
CO (t6785)
Hero (t8340)
SB (t6445)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls t150, 3 folds, CO calls t150, Hero calls t150, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t675) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets t750, Hero folds, BB raises to t7405, UTG calls t1454 (All-In), CO calls t5885 (All-In).

Turn: (t16169) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Is limping with aces a reasonable play during the rebuy period? How a

River: (t16169) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t16169

Results in white below: 
BB has Qc 7s (two pair, queens and sevens).
UTG has 3h Kh (flush, king high).
CO has Ah Ac (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins t11132. UTG wins t5037. 

[/ QUOTE ]

I limp aces once in a blue moon, this is not the way to do it. I would consider limping aces if it folded to me in the CO, or on the button. Ie a situation where I know it's probably gonna go HU or three handed at most.

On the flop, once BB pushes and UTG calls this is a relativly easy fold for CO.

This was just donkified.

Sluss · #9 09-08-2005, 11:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In this particular situation the money is way too deep to make this play ever.

[/ QUOTE ] Rite.. but you also need to offer yourself some protection if you later want to limp with maybe a s/c or a small pair. If you always raise your big hands UTG, and limp with your potential hands, its going to make you too exploitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take this a different way. I will always raise with AA, but I will also occasionally raise with a speculative hand.

I never really understood the preflop limp with AA. I've busted so many of these guys by limping along with 87s on the button I can't really believe it is +ev unless you are at a hyper aggressive table.

Dave D · #10 09-08-2005, 11:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In this particular situation the money is way too deep to make this play ever.

[/ QUOTE ] Rite.. but you also need to offer yourself some protection if you later want to limp with maybe a s/c or a small pair. If you always raise your big hands UTG, and limp with your potential hands, its going to make you too exploitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I take this a different way. I will always raise with AA, but I will also occasionally raise with a speculative hand.

I never really understood the preflop limp with AA. I've busted so many of these guys by limping along with 87s on the button I can't really believe it is +ev unless you are at a hyper aggressive table .

[/ QUOTE ]

Or SB open completes w/ AA, BB raises, SB pushes, BB thinks he's trying to steal and calls.