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#1
09-16-2005, 04:12 AM
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Should I be playing missed hands like this?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed)
No reads on either player... Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls. Flop: (6.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, BB calls, Hero calls. Turn: (6.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets</font>, BB calls, Hero folds. Is this line correct or should I be check/calling this flop? What if a Jack comes on the turn? 
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#3
09-16-2005, 07:21 AM
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Re: Should I be playing missed hands like this?
I'd bet fold the flop.
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#5
09-16-2005, 07:29 AM
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Re: Should I be playing missed hands like this?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'd bet fold the flop. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] Yes you should. But honestly I think I would take one off a lot of times and fold the turn. This might be a leak. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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#6
09-16-2005, 07:54 AM
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Re: Should I be playing missed hands like this?
I've been thinking about this sort of play a bit lately. I actually thinking betting out here achieves very little and checking is probably superior. The bet is essentially a semi-bluff, though the problems I foresee with a semi-bluff here are:
1. There is very little fold equity. Since you were the preflop raiser, many marginal hands will be calling/raising your bet here. It is also quite likely this board has hit either player in same way. 2. When your opponents call you have very few outs to improve. I'd give myself approximately 4-4.5 outs (1.5 for the As, 1 for the backdoor flush, 1.5 for the backdoor straight and 0.5 for the Js) when I'm called. 3. You're in quite a complex situation when one player calls and the turn is a blank, as any sign of weakness will likely result in you losing the pot. Therefore, I would check the flop. I'll run through some possible scenarios and identify how I'd handle them. 1. Checked to CO, CO bets, BB folds In this situation I would call the flop, with the intention of leading out on any: A J T or a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I feel it's very unlikely you will be raised here by anything less than a K, and will be able to fold out quite a few marginal hands here (small pocket pairs, medium pairs, weak draws, etc.) Should a T or [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hit, you have a strong redraw and being raised isn't dire. Overall, I think a semi-bluff will be much more effective on the turn, as you will have greater fold equity and increased ways of improving. 2. Checked to CO, CO bets, BB calls In this situation, I'd fold. I don't feel 8.5:1 is sufficient to draw on here, as many of your outs may be tainted (the J, the backdoor). Given BB's overcall it is very probable you are behind and drawing, thus I would opt to fold. 3. Checked through I'd play my hand similar to scenario 1 here, though I may also lead on any Q (debatable, as a Q may improve your opponents). These are my suggestions when you’re readless. I think it’s important to note the correct play may differ greatly with an accurate read on your opponent. Hope this helps out in someway.
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#8
09-16-2005, 08:35 AM
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Re: Should I be playing missed hands like this?
[ QUOTE ]
I've been thinking about this sort of play a bit lately. I actually thinking betting out here achieves very little and checking is probably superior. [/ QUOTE ] I don`t agree. I think it is essential for you to bet here as it is very hard for hands that do not include a k or FD to call. You also want to buy the button.
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#9
09-16-2005, 09:21 AM
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Re: Should I be playing missed hands like this?
The K works well as scare card 2/4 so a bet on the flop is in order I think.
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#10
09-16-2005, 09:38 AM
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Re: Should I be playing missed hands like this?
[ QUOTE ]
1. There is very little fold equity. Since you were the preflop raiser, many marginal hands will be calling/raising your bet here. It is also quite likely this board has hit either player in same way. [/ QUOTE ] You have a CO who cold-called pre-flop, and a person defending his blinds. I see no reason to believe right away that anyone has anything good, or that this flop hit either of them. I think you have a decent amount of fold-equity, and the pot is already not insignificantly small. [ QUOTE ] 2. When your opponents call you have very few outs to improve. I'd give myself approximately 4-4.5 outs (1.5 for the As, 1 for the backdoor flush, 1.5 for the backdoor straight and 0.5 for the Js) when I'm called. [/ QUOTE ] sure [ QUOTE ] 3. You're in quite a complex situation when one player calls and the turn is a blank, as any sign of weakness will likely result in you losing the pot. [/ QUOTE ] Read-dependent, I'm firing again, or check-folding. And rarely feel uncomfortable about either one. Readless, I really don't think check-folding is that bad.
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