HELP! Beating Party 0.50/1???

[Atropos]

Hey folks,
Im currently feeling like an eunuch in a harem - I know how it is done, I see it being done every day but I cant't do it myself. I'm talking about beating the Party 0.50/1 Games.
This is not a joke, it's absolutely impossible for me to beat these games. I have read ToP,HPFAP,Super System,Carson-Book, I played 12.000 Hands of 0.05/0.10 Holdem at Stars, with 10BB/100 hands, 8000 Hands of 0.01/0.02 NL at Stars, with something ridiculous like 30BB/100. I even played some Omaha High-Low when I was so desperate about my failure in 0.50/1 Holdem, I just picked some good startig hands, calculated the odds, only played the nuts and I was able to grind 6BB/100 over something like 4k hands. Then I started playing 5+1 Sit&Go, with 70% ITM, though only 2 first places.
But still, I cant beat these 0.50/1 Games at Party. I started with 50$ ~3 weeks ago, worked it up to 170$ really quickly but then the problems begun. You see, my BR is rather slim, so I have to play ultra-tight, with VP$IP at 12, normally I have something like 19.
Normally since I'm playing only quality hands, my Won$WSF is around 25-27, but 2 weeks ago it suddenly fell to 11, no matter what I did. This means everybody catches two pair against my TPTK at the river, my two pairs get beaten by 3ofakind... I dont get any help at the flop with hands like AK//AQ, I managed not to win 1 AQs of 20!
Well, since I got no Flush in 2000 hands I thought I should change my strategy a bit, and play many AXs, in many positions. In the beginning this worked out, but when the flushes got beaten by rivered boats everytime, my losses amassed pretty quickly. So my winrate of 10BB over the first 1500 hands is now 0.8BB over 5k hands...

OK, here stops the whining part of the post, now the constructive part begins. I have some questions about possible leaks in my game, so here they come:

1) Should I raise preflop with stuff like AK,AQ,AJ(LP only), and lower pockets like JJ-TT even if I know that 4-5 players will see the flop with me?
2) If I dont raise what shall I do with the flop? Fold unless I get two pairs/flopped boat? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
3) How many callers should I have preflop to be able to play AXs against a raise? How many in an unraised pot?
4) Same as 3) only with pocket pairs??
5) How can I get a read on these players?? Most of the time they are doing some random stuff, but against me they get always a reward for it:

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (7.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(7 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP2 checks, <font color="CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (12.75 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

Results in white below: <font color="white">
Hero shows Kd Ts (straight, ace high).
MP2 shows Jh Qd (straight, ace high).
MP3 shows 5s Ks (straight, ace high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 5.25 BB. MP3 wins 5.25 BB. Hero wins 5.25 BB. </font>

[bisonbison]

If your bankroll is too small, you must move down. You cannot expect a small bankroll to endure the swings of a very loose game, like Party .5/1. The thing that makes it great also makes it a variance pit.

[easypete]

[ QUOTE ]
So my winrate of 10BB over the first 1500 hands is now 0.8BB over 5k hands...

[/ QUOTE ]

Small sample size.

[ QUOTE ]
I was able to grind 6BB/100 over something like 4k hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Wish I could grind out at 6BB/100. If so, I would quit my job and "grind it out" on 8 tables of 30/60, 40 hours a week for about $4 million a year.

I think your expectations are too high.

[ QUOTE ]
Well, since I got no Flush in 2000 hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Happens

[ QUOTE ]
I managed not to win 1 AQs of 20!

[/ QUOTE ]

Happens

[ QUOTE ]
0.8BB over 5k hands

[/ QUOTE ]

Happens (better than -1.5BB/100 over 5k hands - which also happens)

[ QUOTE ]
Well, since I got no Flush in 2000 hands I thought I should change my strategy a bit,

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmmmm..... If you have a decent strategy, runs in cards should never dictate this.

[vulturesrow]

[ QUOTE ]
5) How can I get a read on these players?? Most of the time they are doing some random stuff, but against me they get always a reward for it:

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand isnt the best example of opponents doing random things..MP2 is playing correctly and MP3's raise on the flop is not a bad play necessarily. MP2 shouldve bet the turn too but he isnt wrong for being there..and I dont think anything needs to be said about the river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If your bankroll is too thin to play comfortably at .5/1, move to a site with lower limits. I have deposited 0 of my own money, got 15 free dollars on one of the Prima sites and I am up 150 as we speak, mostly playin .10/.20. Keeg grinding!

Chris

[sin808]

I feel ya, I'm down about 80BB in my last 2 sessions (about 4 hours total).

Look at your hand histories, post questionable ones for some ideas. If you aren't seeing any major leaks, keep playing tight and aggressive and eventually the probabilities will tend to work themselves out in your favor.

It's still a pisser to have to work through, but it happens. Like bison said, lots of variance at this level, not much you can do about it but keep playing your game.

[ugadawg]

<font color="red"> I agree with the other posts here. You should only play where your bankroll can handle it and you shouldn't change your strategy if it is the right strategy. I tried that and it doesn't work. Now I haven't been posting here long but I (hopefully) follow the strategies on this forum to maximize my learnings and earnings. But take this with a grain of salt. Also, I play Poker stars for now until I can get the BR for Party. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] </font>
[ QUOTE ]

1) Should I raise preflop with stuff like AK,AQ,AJ(LP only), and lower pockets like JJ-TT even if I know that 4-5 players will see the flop with me?

[/ QUOTE ]

I raise AKo,AQo, almost from any position (depnds on the table reads) I always raise JJ (but stop at 3-bet pf) I usually limp with AJo but raise AJs if limped before. TT I usually raise in LP and limp in early position (also depending on table). But I have been told that I should almost always raise TT pf if limped. So I am working on that.
[ QUOTE ]
3) How many callers should I have preflop to be able to play AXs against a raise? How many in an unraised pot? ...4) same for PP

[/ QUOTE ]
I will limp with Axs from any position unless I know it will get raised behind me. Sometimes, I will call one bet on button with AXs but not two. As for (non-monster) pocket pairs... I have called up to 2-bets with PPs in the past..and dumped them if they didn't hit. However, I heard (haven't read it yet) that SSH says a big leak is cold calling too much. So, I may have a leak with Axs and PPs to work on.

Like I said.. JMO. But as everyone says... hang in there and don't change anything unless you've Identified it as a leak.

[LeftBack]

Remember this?

What shall I do?

[flair1239]

I started playing 5 months ago and for the first (3) I was playing above my BR. Since I moved down to a comfortable limit, my play has improved.

If you are constantly worried about going broke you will not play nearly aggressive enough to make money. I would rather be playing 3/6 right now instead of .5/1; but it is what my BR can handle.

Read this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...731&amp;Forum=,All_Forums,c1,f1,f6,f24,f7,f8,f10,c2,f2,f4,f3,f21 ,&amp;Words=&amp;Searchpage=1&amp;Limit=25&amp;Mai n=829731&amp;Search=true&amp;where=bodysub&amp;Nam e=13275&amp;daterange=1&amp;newerval=1&amp;newerty pe=y&amp;olderval=2&amp;oldertype=w&amp;bodyprev=# Post829731

[purnell]

this post might make you feel better.

Don't ever let a bad run of cards change your strategy. You WANT these loose callers, even though sometimes they seem to catch every hand against you.

[purnell]

If you are on a short bankroll I would suggest playing the tables with lower than average pot size. This is where you find the folks who are capable of folding if they think they are behind.