Play Along..... Street by Street - RIVER & FINAL THOUGHTS

[Gomez22]

Up to this point, I've posted a hand and asked about opinions PF, on the flop, turn, and now we get to see the river.....

For anyone that missed the TURN action, you can find the post (with recaps) here


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t1630)
UTG (t5535)
UTG+1 (t4905)
MP1 (t1190)
Hero (t1480)
CO (t1430)
Button (t1960)
SB (t1285)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls t100, Hero calls t100, 1 fold, Button calls t100, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (t450) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets t300, Button calls t300, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (t1050) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t1080 (All-In), Button calls t1080.

I think this was a pretty easy push to make. If button WAS on a draw, then he's going to pay for it. From his actions on the flop, I didn't think he had a better hand, and the three should not have helped him. Obviously, most worse hands will fold here, but button has not, which makes me wonder what it is exactly that he holds. Anyone care to guess before I post results on Saturday?


River: (t3210) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t3210




My reasons for posting a hand in this manner were a few:

1. Lloyd had made a post about making this forum a little better (more for the experienced players) and I thought that maybe if I just put this out there, it might get some attention and bring something "different" to this place.

2. Many of the post I see here have advice or comments being given that do not seem to take much thought. A post made about a hand played is usually the whole hand, and sometimes, I think, either small nuances get left out or people don't take the time to think their way through a hand, which brings us to.....

3. I saw ALOT more thought being given (especially to the flop) in this case than I have with many other hands that are posted.

4. More players gave their insight as to their actions here than in a full HH. I think in this sense, some more inexperienced players have seen the kind of thought that can go into 1 single hand of poker.

5. I would hope that this also helped some of the more experienced players somewhat. What do I mean by that? I spent alot of time in the micro forums (it was still small stakes when I started here) reading and replying to HHs, and realized that in trying to help inexperienced players, I was overlooking finer points of hands many times. Seeing some hands posted like this in the mid/high forums helped me to "get back" to more logical thinking and the "taking apart" of hands to better understand them in greater detail. I'm not saying all better players out there are doing this, but it never hurts to look at the nuts and bolts of a hand from time to time and think carefully about what is transpiring.


I'll post the result sometime Saturday, and I hope that those that participated in this had some fun, and hopefully learned something from each other and the many ways in which a hand can be played.

Anyone have anything to add or any replies about this overall?

Thanks for participating!

'Mez

[Hotrod0823]

Easy turn push. I think 9/10 you get shown the nut flush on the river.

The flush is getting 2:1 odds to draw at it. Calling 1080 to win 2130. This is correct on our end, and he shouldn't be calling here. We properly kept the pot relatively small on the flop, and pushed the turn. If he has the flush here, so be it. I don't think we can play this much better.

But he could also have a weaker king. What about Kx clubs? Top pair, with a 2nd nut flush draw on the turn? That might account for his call of the turn push. Maybe KJ or KT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]? I just dont see top two checking this draw-heavy flop and then just calling our bet of 300. Top two comes back over the top and we can get away from it. So I dont think he's got KT.

If he hasn't called down all the way on his flush draw, then I think I like K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for him. Limped behind a couple limpers on the button, flopped top pair, called the 300, turned a flush draw. I think I like it.

I dont know how I feel putting him on such a precise hand - and very rarely can I even do that, I'm not that good yet - but I'm gonna give it a shot here [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Gomez22]

[ QUOTE ]
The flush is getting 2:1 odds to draw at it. Calling 1080 to win 2130. This is correct on our end, and he shouldn't be calling here. We properly kept the pot relatively small on the flop, and pushed the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you have a firm grasp of pot odds here.... IF button had a FD on the flop, he would be roughly 2-1 to make that flush BY THE RIVER (that's 2 cards, turn & river to come). On the turn, his odds to make the flush are 37-9 (or 4.1-1), not the 2-1 that you mentioned.

Also, we didn't keep the pot small on the flop necessarily. We gave odds of 2.5-1 to any draws calling, not favorable to anything but an OESD + FD, although a gutshot + FD would be 2.9-1 to hit the next card, a little closer.

I certainly do understand pot odds [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I was horribly unclear with what I meant when I said "... getting 2:1 odds to draw at it..."

My intention was to note that by the time we push the turn, the pot is only offering him ~2:1, and as we all know, he's ~4:1 to make it. I think we kept the pot relatively small, all things considered. I certainly voted for a ~200 bet, but the 300 isnt a bet I hate.

I'm agreeing with you on these points. Its a shame I have a horrible grasp of the english language [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Kirkrrr]

People who play this way make me absolutely dizzy trying to put them on a hand. However, a lot of players fall in love with slowplaying once they discover it, and do it regardless of boards never thinking how many cards ruin their hand. So I would really not be surprised to see 66 here for the bottom set, or KT. JhQh is the only draw I can see calling both the flop and the turn, assuming a -somewhat- rational player.

Kirk