Surely I'm not meant to win this one

ALL1N · #1 09-20-2005, 11:07 AM

Just assume no radical reads.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (5 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP posts a blind of $30.
UTG raises, MP (poster) calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, MP calls, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP raises, Hero folds

BarronVangorToth · #2 09-20-2005, 11:12 AM

Would he make this play with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q not-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]?

A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] w/ any J or 10?

JT?

Plus, the MP didn't cold-call the UTG raise - he had posted ... which makes his range broader than that of a cold-caller...

Call 1BB for the 8.75 sitting out there - I think you have the odds.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

flawless_victory · #3 09-20-2005, 11:14 AM

woah dude. bad laydown.

#4 09-20-2005, 11:34 AM

You are getting 9.75-1 to call. If you assume your opponent has the flush, then you must call since you have the implied odds to draw to your boat. If your opponent could also have two pair here, then you must call since your hand still has a chance of being good. By reading other posts you'll know by now that this is a bad fold so I'll make a few comments on other aspects of this hand. PREFLOP: I think your call is marginal at best. Youre getting 7.5-1 to call here and I am not sure Q3s is a profitable play. With Q-rag suited I like to be getting 9-1 odds against a raise, but maybe this is too tight. That said, I think your call here can still be profitable becuz of your relative position to the raiser. Would anyone fold in this spot? FLOP: This is very close between checking and calling and checking and folding. I really see nothing wrong with folding on this flop especially against a tight raiser's hand range. But I understand why you called since the pot odds were decent and you were closing the action. Again, would anyone fold in this spot?

ALL1N · #5 09-20-2005, 11:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
woah dude. bad laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Serious?? Which worse hand can MP have that doesn't raise the flop, but now raises the turn??

Do you say this because it's a CO poster??

#6 09-20-2005, 11:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
woah dude. bad laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Serious?? Which worse hand can MP have that doesn't raise the flop, but now raises the turn??

Do you say this because it's a CO poster??

[/ QUOTE ]
You are probably trailing but you have the odds to call against the villains hand range. If villain has the flush you still have the odds to boat up, and if vaillain doesnt have the flush than theres still a chance you have the best hand.

ALL1N · #7 09-20-2005, 11:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
woah dude. bad laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Serious?? Which worse hand can MP have that doesn't raise the flop, but now raises the turn??

Do you say this because it's a CO poster??

[/ QUOTE ]
You are probably trailing but you have the odds to call against the villains hand range. If villain has the flush you still have the odds to boat up, and if vaillain doesnt have the flush than theres still a chance you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude that totally doesn't answer my question.

ALL1N · #8 09-20-2005, 11:56 AM

I have seen the error of my ways re: fold.

However, how is the flop/turn line??

#9 09-20-2005, 12:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
woah dude. bad laydown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Serious?? Which worse hand can MP have that doesn't raise the flop, but now raises the turn??

Do you say this because it's a CO poster??

[/ QUOTE ]
You are probably trailing but you have the odds to call against the villains hand range. If villain has the flush you still have the odds to boat up, and if vaillain doesnt have the flush than theres still a chance you have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude that totally doesn't answer my question.

[/ QUOTE ]
Now I'm confused, anyways If your question is what worse hands can the villain have that just calls the flop and raises the turn, Barron has already answered that indirectly. AQ with an Ace of clubs, and JT,QJ,QT, are some of the hands that may just call the flop and pop the turn. So the answer is AQ and JT.

#10 09-20-2005, 12:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen the error of my ways re: fold.

However, how is the flop/turn line??

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the flop play is very close between checking and folding and checking and calling. I would definitely not bet out on this board with your hand, I would check and see the action. I think your turn play of betting out is excellent, even though your hand is not that strong on this board, you still need protection against possible gutshots, and you may get the PFR to raise the turn with hands you beat like AA,KK,KQ,AQ, and this will help protect your hand in this large pot.