hypothetical big stack calling question (HOH-related)

[schwza]

this is inspired by this stt thread, but it didn't really apply to sng's, so i wanted mtt input.

harrington apparently says in hoh2 that if you a big stack and the payouts increase a lot every time someone busts, you should call any push (presumably in the BB) for less than 1/10 of your stack if you have cards that do reasonably well against a random hand.

- is this what he says? i'm sure i got a detail or two wrong.

here's a hypothetical hand:

BB (hero): 10k
SB: 6k
button: 2k
MP: 4k
utg: 1k

blinds 50/100. payouts are like party. utg pushes and it's folded to you.

what is your calling range here? it sounds like harrington would call hands like Q5o, J6o, 22, etc. this seems totally nuts to me.

it's even more pronounced if the shorty is letting you run over the table, like if the stacks are

10k (hero), 500, 3k, 3k, 3k.

then you desperately want shorty to stay alive. taking an obvious -chipEV gamble to bust him is super dumb.

thoughts?

[rockythecat99]

If the blinds are higher I would call but not here. I am not getting odds on my crappy hands. But if I was then yes. Btw taking out the short stack not only increases your stack but makes you more money. In the final table I don't know why you wouldn't want to accumulate chips and take someone out. Yes I know the other stacks are waiting for him to bust but NL is such a dangerous game that you can be out in a hand or two. There is no guarantee that you will stay the big stack and be able to bully the rest of the table. So for me I would take shorty out almost 100% of the time.

[elmitchbo]

i think you call for several reasons.

even with the blinds at 50/100 the short stack has an M of 7.5. a good player will start to push with a wide range of hands at that point or below. any hand that is above average is good enough to call and give you the odds you need to risk busting him out. Qxo is just about average, so that type of hand and anything better will do.

if you've noticed that he seems to be waiting and waiting until he gets a monster hand, then you might want to be a little more selective with you calling standards. if you think he's trying to wait for AA don't worry about him. he's going to lose anyway because the blinds will eat him up. when he finally catches his monster it won't matter... his stack will be so small that he'll get called by 3 players and one of them will probably take him out.

it's probably not as -ev as you think. most of the time you'll be something like a 3:2 dog. you can afford to take that and lose, and then take it again on the very next hand no problem.

lastly, i disagree with your later comment. you don't want shorty around no matter what the situation. you want people knocked out as fast as possible. everybody that goes out makes you real money. knocking a player out is a huge victory and it's worth taking some risks to make it happen.