TT heads up. I hate these spots.

Stealthy · #1 11-30-2005, 06:54 PM

Vilain is a TAG 13/7/3 after 70 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB

Misplayed ......... yes I know. Should I simply bet/fold turn, bet/fold river once the overs come?

#2 11-30-2005, 06:57 PM

With those stats I would have deffinitely bet/fold the turn.

#3 11-30-2005, 07:00 PM

The example in HPFAP says C/C with QQ when someone 3-bets you. I wouldn't see too much difference here. Your flop/turn line looks inconsistent in that you flop 3-bet thinking you have the best then called down once the most likely overcard hand hit. Either C/C all the way (with maybe betting the river if no overcards appear along the way) or bet/fold to a raise on the turn.

#4 11-30-2005, 07:06 PM

Against this type of opponent I c/c the whole way, and I don't think check/folding when the king hits is too weak.

jt1 · #5 11-30-2005, 07:09 PM

cap pre-flop. you easily have the best hand and it makes post flop easier

by just calling him preflop, you made your flop bet look like a silly bluff

a bet/fold won't work because due to heros preflop and flop play, it now looks like he has trips. Villian won't raise.

you're stuck. I'd just bet/fold, bet/fold. Nothing you can do about it. Hope he has a smaller pp

an argument can be made for check calling turn and leading river. it night keep a small pp from folding.

frankly, i don't think it matters. You're toast but he's not going to let you know that

good hand to post, though

Stealthy · #6 11-30-2005, 07:16 PM

I only cap pre-flop here against LAGs and maniacs (I do differentiate the two). Is this a mistake not capping against TAGs as well?

Nick C · #7 11-30-2005, 07:20 PM

We only have 70 hands, but it seems Villain possibly is on the tight side for a TAG. And he's probably not interpreting your raise from MP2 as a particularly light raise or a steal, so I think assigning a 3-betting range of AA-TT and AK/AQ makes sense here. (I think Villain's stats say we shouldn't include the AQ, but it's only 70 hands, and the fact that Villain is on the Button versus an MP open-raise argues for including AQ.)

Anyway, here are some combos on the flop:

AA-JJ = 24

TT = 1

AK/AQ = 32

If we can toss hands like 88/77 into the mix, then we're doing okay. But I'm not at all sure we're getting 3-bet by 88/77 by this Villain, and if we're not, then we're not really in such great shape versus Villain's range on the flop, since he's got more outs when we're ahead than we have when we're behind. (In fact, if we discount AQ, and maybe we should, we're not even a favorite to be currently ahead.)

Anyway, I would probably just check-call the flop.

On the turn, bet-folding is the consistent follow-up to your flop play, I guess, but Villain might now just continue calling with his JJ, if that's what he's got (and I doubt he's folding it). We're really hoping for AQ (or an underpair) at this point, and for Villain to have AQ, he would have needed to auto-raise the flop. A lot of TAGs will do that, though, so we can't rule it out. Still, I think simply check-folding the turn is something to consider. The preflop 3-bet, the flop raise, and the turn bet (once it comes) all make AQ somewhat less likely than other hands.

Anyway, I guess I'm rambling. If I took your flop line, I would probably follow up by bet-folding on each of the next two streets, without liking it much.

jt1 · #8 11-30-2005, 07:26 PM

first off, i thought this was HU.

but you have to think you TT is good against a TAG. If you're good and he thinks that you're good then he'll 3-bet you with AJo and even KQ. If he thinks your a little wuss then he'll 3 bet you with AQs or better. And if your an unknown then he should be 3-betting you with AQo or better including 55 or better. (perhaps justt 66 or better)

Point is you beat a lot of hands and by capping you reveal nothing. You could scare him into folding overcards on the flop. Or you could confuse him into calling down with 88.

TT and QQ are way different because there are two more overcards that can hurt you.

Revewing the hand, I think you bet/fold the turn. If he just calls then you can check fold the river. It's the King that should scare you.

Villians stats are tight weak but 70 hands is a small sample size.

Nick C · #9 11-30-2005, 07:31 PM

I think just calling the 3-bet preflop is fine.

I don't think we should assume this TAG has a wide 3-betting range versus you.

Even if we did know he had a wide range, I'm not sure we'd want to clue him in that his pocket 6's were way behind preflop.

jt1 · #10 11-30-2005, 07:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think just calling the 3-bet preflop is fine.

I don't think we should assume this TAG has a wide 3-betting range versus you.

Even if we did know he had a wide range, I'm not sure we'd want to clue him in that his pocket 6's were way behind preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I pretty much agree with all of this. It's safe to put Villlian on AQ or better.

I'd check raise the flop if I didn't cap preflop. Then, I'd check fold the turn.

A flop cr shouldn't scare off 66. It looks like a bluff with KJ or a mid pp. He'll call and check any turn through. If the turn isn't an A, K, or Q then obviously you'll lead, hoping to force AQ to fold.

In this case, Villian has tight weak stats & your position is still kind of early. You can honor his aggression and bow out on the turn.