KQs- OESD and flush draw on the flop

Hack · #1 12-20-2004, 01:19 AM

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds.

I flopped a [censored] monster...

Flop: (7.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

River: (9.70 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 folds, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 13.70 BB

Entity · #2 12-20-2004, 01:21 AM

Everything other than the coldcall preflop looks fine.

Hack · #3 12-20-2004, 01:22 AM

It is not okay with position and stuff?

Entity · #4 12-20-2004, 01:31 AM

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It is not okay with position and stuff?

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Some will say yes, but I don't think you've got enough callers to be donating 2SB to a small pot against a UTG raise. There aren't many hands that you're happy to be up against here (preflop), and you won't take down a huge pot because of the number of people in the pot.

Rob

Hack · #5 12-20-2004, 01:37 AM

Hmm. SSH says it is okay to play KQs against a raise either in a loose or tight game(I assume cause of the flush potential). I was counting on BB calling cause he almost always does but would 4 players here be much better than 3?

Entity · #6 12-20-2004, 01:50 AM

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Hmm. SSH says it is okay to play KQs against a raise either in a loose or tight game(I assume cause of the flush potential). I was counting on BB calling cause he almost always does but would 4 players here be much better than 3?

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This is just one of the situations where I (and a few others, IIRC) don't agree with SSH. I don't think it's bad, I just don't agree with it so much. I think I could be persuaded otherwise, but just reading the preflop SSH chart and having it say "coldcall with KQs" doesn't give me enough info to persuade me.

Rob

Hack · #7 12-20-2004, 01:52 AM

It doesn't say that with KQo, but I think Ed says to do it cause it's suited and with a raise u are getting better odds, maybe to see the flop and try and flop a flush draw?

Entity · #8 12-20-2004, 01:54 AM

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It doesn't say that with KQo, but I think Ed says to do it cause it's suited and with a raise u are getting better odds, maybe to see the flop and try and flop a flush draw?

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Right -- but you're 9:1 to flop a flush draw, and with this few players, you're paying 3.2:1.

I selectively coldcall with KQs. I just think it's important to know why you're coldcalling in various situations, rather than just doing it.

Rob

Hack · #9 12-20-2004, 02:05 AM

I call to try and flop a 4-flush, or two pair, or trips, or an OESD.

Entity · #10 12-20-2004, 02:12 AM

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I call to try and flop a 4-flush, or two pair, or trips, or an OESD.

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Yes -- but what odds do you need to try to flop a hand like that? Are you getting such odds in a shorthanded pot against an EP raise? What range of hands do you put EP on that he'd raise here?

Rob