BB vs Button

[Gene2x]

I was reviewing a recent session in PT when I came accross this hand- a confrontation by the BB and Button (I'm neither of the two). The BB has AdQc and the Button has 9d9h.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop:
1 fold, MP calls, Button raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP calls.

Question: Shouldn't the BB have raised to try to knock out the MP player?

Flop: (6.50 SB) 4, Q, K (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Button bets, BB calls, MP folds.

Question: Would it have made sense for the BB to bet first to see where he's at instead of checking to the raiser?

Turn: (4.25 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Button bets, BB calls.

Question: The pot is offering about 5:1. If he's behind, he needs another Q or an A but has to discount some of them because the Button could have KQ or AK or might be betting a draw. In that case the BB has maybe 3 outs and the pot would need to be offering 15:1. Is this such an automatic call by the BB? Forget about reads on the Button. I think his bet is mandatory at this point regardless of what he has or type of player he is.

River: (6.25 BB) K (2 players)
BB checks, Button checks.

Question: Is checking the river correct (for both players)?

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

[deception5]

Raising and calling are pretty close preflop. I'd usually go ahead and raise here but not raising is not terrible.

On the flop if BB bets he gives the button an easy way out with a worse hand and allows the button to make more with a strong hand.

On the turn check/calling is fine. There's no need to count pot odds here when you have a made hand that is best probably 70% of the time. Button's range is huge here and folding would be a crime unless button is super weak/tight.

I'm not convinced that the button's bet is manditory here with K/Q on the board, but it depends on his read of BB. I think it's more likely he's against a made hand than a draw though.

I'd bet the river though as by checking the button is going to bet most hands that beat you and check behind most that don't. The king also greatly reduced the number of hands that you are behind.

[Chairman Wood]

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop:
1 fold, MP calls, Button raises, 1 fold, BB calls, MP calls.

Question: Shouldn't the BB have raised to try to knock out the MP player?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not necessarilly to knock people out but to get more money in the pot with a great hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (6.50 SB) 4, Q, K (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Button bets, BB calls, MP folds.

Question: Would it have made sense for the BB to bet first to see where he's at instead of checking to the raiser?


[/ QUOTE ]

If you can count on the pfr betting on the flop then going for a c/r here is the best play.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (4.25 BB) 4 (2 players)
BB checks, Button bets, BB calls.

Question: The pot is offering about 5:1. If he's behind, he needs another Q or an A but has to discount some of them because the Button could have KQ or AK or might be betting a draw. In that case the BB has maybe 3 outs and the pot would need to be offering 15:1. Is this such an automatic call by the BB? Forget about reads on the Button. I think his bet is mandatory at this point regardless of what he has or type of player he is.

[/ QUOTE ] This player probably isn't thinking much about his necessary odds to draw. But regardless, even though he isn't playing it as such he is ahead a significant portion of the time. His call is due to the fact that he may think he has the best hand. A flat call here may entice his opponent to toss another bluff on the river.
[ QUOTE ]
River: (6.25 BB) K (2 players)
BB checks, Button checks.

Question: Is checking the river correct (for both players)?

Final Pot: 6.25 BB

[/ QUOTE ]
If I'm BB, I would have played this whole hand much differently and by now I would have taken control of the hand and been in a position to lead this river. This K is a great card for us, if we are ahead going to the river this card didn't change that for us. If I am button, I bet this against a lot of opponents. So many bad players call with so many worse hands.

[TheKentock]

On the flop, I think betting out and c/ring are both better than the c/c. Taking the initiative on this flop is very important with this hand. After raising preflop and being checked to on the flop, Button will bet any hand here. Hand plays differently after that.

As it was played, I would have definitely bet the river when the second King fell. Generally, checking and calling the whole hand is giving the Button too much credit.

[bobman0330]

I 3-bet PF all the time, unless Button is very passive.

check-calling the flop is good. I want a showdown, and I don't think i'm ever not getting raised on this flop.

I bet the turn, I think. everyone knows he doesn't have a 4, and he's going to have a hard time raising without a monster. If he does raise... I think a fold is right, but I don't like not seeing a SD here.

River... who knows. check-call, because I can't fold to a raise. But then again, he'll call with a bare A, so a bet has a lot of value.

[EvanJC]

since you're neither, i think BB played this hand like a giant, passive fish. 3-bet preflop, bet the flop, bet turn bet river. where's aggroSSSHposter or whatever this forum is called now? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[deception5]

[ QUOTE ]
If you can count on the pfr betting on the flop then going for a c/r here is the best play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, I think we are often significantly ahead of both opponents. A check/raise is likely to knock MP out and a turn lead will often get the button to fold a worse hand (like 99 for example). You are never getting a K to fold here so why force out a worse hand?

I would like a c/r better if we were to the right of the preflop raiser.

[Gene2x]

Good point. Let the other guy bet his worse hand. You do risk being outdrawn, though. I suppose in the long run, your wins will compensate for your bad beats. Maybe he should have bet the river as many will check the river after getting called down this far.