KK, What to do on flop here?

#1 09-22-2005, 10:41 PM

Micro tournament on PokerStars. I've been absolutely card-dead with AJ being the best hand I've seen and a raise and a re-raise in front of me already on that one.

I look down at two Kings in first position.

A) Did I play the preflop right?
B) Do I check and fold flop?

I was switched to this table three hands ago and villain seems like a wildman, calling raises and re-raises with quite a few number of hands.

I put him between A 9 and AK on this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t2620)
Hero (t1405)
UTG+1 (t2055)
MP1 (t3835)
MP2 (t2710)
MP3 (t2125)
CO (t1315)
Button (t1305)
SB (t13400)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls t30, 1 fold, MP1 calls t30, 2 folds, CO raises to t150, 3 folds, Hero raises to t400, MP1 folds, CO calls t250.

Flop: (t875) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Hero bets 240, Villain re-raises all in
Hero folds
Final Pot: t875

#2 09-23-2005, 12:29 PM

Is the correct play to check/fold and save yourself chips? I get myself into this position all the time?

I know checking looks mighty weak after a re-raise preflop, but don't you have to put him on KK?

Villain is wild though...

TomHimself · #3 09-23-2005, 12:34 PM

I don't really understand your weak flop bet there, I would just push on flop. I also might reraise PF to 450 but thats being picky, I like the limp-reraise though.

#4 09-23-2005, 12:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really understand your weak flop bet there, I would just push on flop. I also might reraise PF to 450 but thats being picky, I like the limp-reraise though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really understand it either, lol. I was just pissed because I put villain on AQ at best, most likely A 8- AJ.

I didn't want to push the flop and then have to catch a two outer.

It's the smart play to just push and pray he called the re-raise without an ace?

Hickboy · #5 09-23-2005, 12:48 PM

Eh, I think a better line is raising, hoping someone reraises (you'll almost always get calls at the micro level with these blinds), and reraising if someone plays back at you, and expect a call from an overplayed weak ace or mid pair. If you run into aces, then the tournament wasn't meant for you.

Limp reraising telegraphs your hand too much. In case nobody raises, would you really want to play KK with 5 limpers? You're not that much of a favorite to win in this scenario, and it's real easy to run into a set, or some random 2 pair.

TomHimself · #6 09-23-2005, 12:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Eh, I think a better line is raising, hoping someone reraises (you'll almost always get calls at the micro level with these blinds), and reraising if someone plays back at you, and expect a call from an overplayed weak ace or mid pair. If you run into aces, then the tournament wasn't meant for you.

Limp reraising telegraphs your hand too much. In case nobody raises, would you really want to play KK with 5 limpers? You're not that much of a favorite to win in this scenario, and it's real easy to run into a set, or some random 2 pair.

[/ QUOTE ]Well if everyone limps you have to play kk Cautiously, he got what he want and someone raised. i dont really know how you put him on A9-AK, when he can be doing this w/ different hands also.

#7 09-23-2005, 12:59 PM

I was positive a raise was coming. From this table it looked like either somebody pumped it up 3x the big blind or some donk would min-raise out of early position.

An all in with the KK is way overplayed, right?

Maybe that would push him off his Ax? You can't play that way though, correct?

Hickboy · #8 09-23-2005, 01:31 PM

well, if you knew a raise was comming, then put in the first raise, let your opponent raise, then you go all in after that, and expect a call ;0

How do you *know* a raise is comming. How do you know what people are going to do without any physical tells before you act UTG? I understand that you've seen certain betting patterns, but wouldn't you think those donks who min raise all the time call with crap after a raise?

In the micro level, you aren't pushing anybody off their raggedy aces.

Dave D · #9 09-23-2005, 01:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Micro tournament on PokerStars. I've been absolutely card-dead with AJ being the best hand I've seen and a raise and a re-raise in front of me already on that one.

I look down at two Kings in first position.

A) Did I play the preflop right?
B) Do I check and fold flop?

I was switched to this table three hands ago and villain seems like a wildman, calling raises and re-raises with quite a few number of hands.

I put him between A 9 and AK on this hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB (t2620)
Hero (t1405)
UTG+1 (t2055)
MP1 (t3835)
MP2 (t2710)
MP3 (t2125)
CO (t1315)
Button (t1305)
SB (t13400)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero calls t30, 1 fold, MP1 calls t30, 2 folds, CO raises to t150, 3 folds, Hero raises to t400, MP1 folds, CO calls t250.

Flop: (t875) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Hero bets 240, Villain re-raises all in
Hero folds
Final Pot: t875

[/ QUOTE ]

Good fold, I think this situation is the mark of a good player. What's the purpose of your flop bet? To hopefully get a fold, and determine that you have to fold if you get raised significantly. Even maniacs hit hands, and he saw your move preflop.

By the way, personally I like a push from you PF, I think you're likely to get called, especially given your read on villian.

edit: I didn't notice initially how small your flop bet is. It is kinda a sign of weakness. But you can't bet a more appropriate amount ( like 600 into the ~825 pot) without getting yourself committed or folding w/ only 400 left. You can still rep the A by checking, if villian bets a lot you can fold, and I think I like that line better.

TomHimself · #10 09-23-2005, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
well, if you knew a raise was comming, then put in the first raise, let your opponent raise, then you go all in after that, and expect a call ;0

How do you *know* a raise is comming. How do you know what people are going to do without any physical tells before you act UTG? I understand that you've seen certain betting patterns, but wouldn't you think those donks who min raise all the time call with crap after a raise?

In the micro level, you aren't pushing anybody off their raggedy aces.

[/ QUOTE ]putting in the 1st raise doesnt mean they are gonna reraise, gators was jsut saying thaqt the table has been active