A10s vs a mouse

deepsquat · #1 04-09-2005, 10:57 PM

BB is a mouse. 10% VPIP, 3% pfr over 111 hands

My question is about all streets, what would be a better strategy. Thanks

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB 3-bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

When im 3bet pf im quite sure im looking at KK or AA. I would think that villain would prob call AK from the BB

Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP2 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

I didnt think a raise would do me much good here. No protection + no real value as im prob behind.

Turn: (8 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP2 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

My raise here was to fold SB and perhaps to get an idea of where im at + a free showdown.

River: (12 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

My hand doesnt improve + i wont get called by any hand i beat.

Final Pot: 12 BB

thesharpie · #2 04-09-2005, 11:06 PM

I like it, as long as you know villain won't 3 bet an overpair which he won't as he's a mouse. If he did happen to 3 bet it you'd have to call the turn unless you know he has pocket aces. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Do you fold the river if he leads into you?

istewart · #3 04-09-2005, 11:11 PM

What are BB's postflop aggression numbers?

deepsquat · #4 04-09-2005, 11:22 PM

not sure where to find thos ein PT. Im looking at villains profile but not sure how to find post flop aggression.

Ive played 111 hands with villain and he isnt aggressive post flop. I could tell with this hand that he wanted a SD as cheap as possible.

kapw7 · #5 04-09-2005, 11:38 PM

Why is it better to raise the turn and not raise the flop that costs less and can get you a free turn card? Also on the flop you have two rounds to get improved if you are behind and on the turn only one. Finally the turn card is a scare card that might give your opponents a straight and a flush draw.
So if you are sure you are behind what can this turn raise achieve? Secure the second position?

thesharpie · #6 04-09-2005, 11:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is it better to raise the turn and not raise the flop that costs less and can get you a free turn card? Also on the flop you have two rounds to get improved if you are behind and on the turn only one. Finally the turn card is a scare card that might give your opponents a straight and a flush draw.
So if you are sure you are behind what can this turn raise achieve? Secure the second position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because we're playing against a mouse doesn't guarantee we're behind. Some of them bet the flop and turn with overcards after raising preflop.

If we raise the flop and it's checked to us on the turn, we can't take our free card as we're likely ahead.

And if we raise the flop and it's 3 bet, well then we just wasted 1SB as we'll have to call the turn anyway, and maybe the river as the pot is large.

So the only point to raising the flop is getting more money in if we have the best hand, but if it is best our hand is vulnerable and we're not getting anybody to fold, so wait until the turn.

Shillx · #7 04-10-2005, 01:22 AM

I don't like it at all. Given the action, I would either raise the flop or fold the turn. Of the two, I like calling the flop and then folding the turn the best.

The problem with raising the turn is that you are in bad shape onces he bets again. So he will bet AK on the flop, but then he will check that hands once all three people call him. If he bets again on the turn, you are drawing to somewhere between 0-5 outs. The only exception is the exact combination (A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]). There are 16 ways that he can have AA-TT so you are a 16:1 underdog to have the best hand when he bets the turn. You equity against AA-TT and AK [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is about 12.5% so I guess you could call him again on the turn and then fold the river if you don't improve but it is a thin call and we still have a player to act behind us. Raising the turn is reckless because he isn't going to fold a hand like JJ or QQ. All you are doing is putting in more bets with WAY the worst of it.

Brad

Shillx · #8 04-10-2005, 01:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I like it, as long as you know villain won't 3 bet an overpair which he won't as he's a mouse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we looking at the same hand here?

So you like putting 2 bets in on the turn with 2-5 outs? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

The turn raise is not good at all. Do you see why?

Brad

deepsquat · #9 04-10-2005, 01:31 AM

Hi shillx,

Would simply calling down be ok in this situation? I dont want to automatically give him credit for an overpair when i have TPTK or is a flop raise and turn fold UI optimal?

So we should make the assumption that he has an overpair because he lead the turn?

cheers

cmwck · #10 04-10-2005, 03:39 AM

Preflop raise is fine. You couldn't have known the mouse would 3-bet this time.

Flop looks good. Your hand is very vulnerable if not beat allready. Nevertheless, you still have odds to call on the basis of your trips or two-pair draw.

The real problem is whether to raise the turn. You're not going to call if he bets on the end. Your hand would have little showdown value at that point. So if you raise, you're going to cost yourself two bets to see a river you're going to fold if he bets, but check if he checks. On top of that, you'll get three-bet if he has AA or KK, but will call that anyway because you'll still be getting odds to outdraw him. So now you've paid three bets to see a card you could have seen for one.