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#1
11-05-2005, 09:32 PM
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I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
My first post, but I've been lurking for a while. This hand was early in my limit play, and it's bothered me for ages. I just can't get my head around whether I played it weak, or just about right. Typical loose-passive PS table. PT stats irrelevant at this point (too few hands) but Villain1's pre-flop was pretty tight from what I'd seen. It was surprising to see so many cold calls, however, and I shut down into passive mode when normally I 3-bet this without even thinking about it. Flop -- miracle. Easy play. Got everyone for 2, cool. Mildly surprised there's not more action. If the flush draw hits, I'm probably toast, though. 4th St -- easy. Charge that draw. Hm, no raises. River -- jesus. A spade. I have no problem bet/calling into one or even two players. But 3? I go weak again. Checked around and somebody wakes up on the button. I cry and call. If I'm good, overcalls are better than raising and getting popped by the nuts. Hit me with it. Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 (Villain1)/ raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO (Villain2)/ calls, Button calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>. Flop: (15 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain1 bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Villain2 calls, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Villain1 calls, MP1 calls, Villain2 calls. Turn: (11.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Villain1 calls, MP1 calls, Villain2 calls. River: (15.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> Hero checks, Villain1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Villain2 bets</font>, Hero calls, Villain1 calls, MP1 folds. Final Pot: 18.50 BB 
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#2
11-05-2005, 09:35 PM
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Re: I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
Preflop is HORRIBLE. This is costing you a TON.
Everything else, even the river, is perfect.
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#3
11-05-2005, 10:13 PM
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Re: I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
What are your thoughts on this hand? If I held these cards I would 3 bet preflop. I would play the rest of the hand the same, except I would pair the board on the river.
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#4
11-05-2005, 10:31 PM
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Re: I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
Not 3-betting preflop is a significant mistake. Your equity edge preflop against this big of a field is huge.
Given that you just called preflop this is a good flop checkraise, since given your position relative to the likely flop bettor you'll probably get to trap the field for two bets. Bet the river. This is an easy value bet. You don't want to check-call because your opponents will check behind with hands that you beat that they might have called with, and by checking with the intention to call you assure that no bets go in unless one of your opponents bets, which will tend to happen more when they have you beat. There's a right way and a wrong way to lose this hand if someone has a flush, and check-calling isn't the right way. Getting raised here and paying off should be standard operating procedure sans a very strong read.
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#5
11-05-2005, 10:32 PM
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Re: I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
3-bet preflop. QQ wins way too often to not raise here.
Flop is fine given your failure to three-bet preflop. River...ugh. Man. Three people drawing against you. With the pot this big bet/folding can't be right, so it's either bet/call or check/call. I dunno, I think you still have to bet here. Villain 1 we don't have to worry about, and the other villains had a chance to raise the flop with a flush draw and they declined. I think there's enough value here to justify a bet. It's close either way though. Will
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#6
11-05-2005, 10:37 PM
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Re: I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
Im thinking along the lines of 3 betting preflop, and then leading the flop. Even with that many people that make it to the river, I am going with a bet/call line.
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#7
11-05-2005, 10:39 PM
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Re: I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
[ QUOTE ]
Not 3-betting preflop is a significant mistake. Your equity edge preflop against this big of a field is huge. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. So large, that you should consider 3-betting a HUGE range of hands in this spot, including stuff like JTs and 88. You aren't thinking "I'm going to win this pot most of the time"...you're thinking "I have a significant equity edge,", which simplistically means that your hand is significantly better than the field, so you should raise, even out of position. You don't have to auto-bet the flop, nor do you have to win the pot all the time...you're just much better off than everyone who coldcalled before you.
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#8
11-05-2005, 11:29 PM
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Re: I know I misplayed these QQs, but how?
1. I definitely keep raising this pre-flop.
2. River's a reasonably close decision. With this many people in the pot, check/calling seems OK. If it were three total or heads up, I probably bet/call. With four, I am more inclind to check/call. (But this depends a lot on what my gut feeling and reads.)
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