calling over cards in a big pot

scott111 · #1 07-05-2005, 10:40 AM

Just sat down so no great reads, 45% or so to the flop. I am most tormented lately by river play. Please advise.

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (13 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 raises, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn: (10 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

istewart · #2 07-05-2005, 10:43 AM

I would tend to fold the flop. If you had a spade I would reconsider peeling. Definitely do not call the river, you're not good here nearly that often.

jrz1972 · #3 07-05-2005, 10:43 AM

I hate the play on all post-flop streets.

Fold the flop, fold the turn, fold the river.

Edit: Okay, calling the turn isn't bad.

MrWookie47 · #4 07-05-2005, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I hate the play on all post-flop streets.

Fold the flop, fold the turn, fold the river.

Edit: Okay, calling the turn isn't bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

scott111 · #5 07-05-2005, 11:49 AM

I called the turn because the pot was 18 SB and it was 2 to call. 9 to 1 odds and if K or Q was still good then I only needed 6.5 to 1 to call. If he's on a flush draw then only four of them are good, but would he be with a flush draw? I've seen it on these tables. I guess with the raise I should put him on 2 pair at least.

Anyway, he took it with JJ, so my outs were good, I just didn't hit them [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

davelin · #6 07-05-2005, 12:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I called the turn because the pot was 18 SB and it was 2 to call. 9 to 1 odds and if K or Q was still good then I only needed 6.5 to 1 to call. If he's on a flush draw then only four of them are good, but would he be with a flush draw? I've seen it on these tables. I guess with the raise I should put him on 2 pair at least.

Anyway, he took it with JJ, so my outs were good, I just didn't hit them [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

So why call the river? There's no magical 6th street to hit your outs against.

scott111 · #7 07-05-2005, 12:23 PM

My thinking, the pot is 13BB at that point. The chance that he was bluffing to that point with out even an ace is remote I admit, but I thought he would bet a flush draw and then bluff it at the end more often than 1 in 13 times, thus making this call profitable. Any big flaw in that thinking? Looking at the result, the ace should have been real scary for him, yet he still bet again on the river.

theghost · #8 07-05-2005, 12:26 PM

Lots of $ in there on all streets, you're getting 9:1 on the flop call (so I don't quite get the huge difference between calling the flop and turn...)

You're dominated by AK and AQ, but could probably have expected a raise pf from those depending on the opponents.

I'd normally like to have a spade to call the flop, but I don't think it's terrible due to pot size.

Turn call is also ok imo.

What is your read of this guy - is he going to raise a flush draw like that and send it around 2 cold? Follow up with a bet on the turn? That would be pretty stupid on his part, but some people are pretty stupid - is s/he?

If not a donkified flush draw, I'm guessing mid-pocket pair (you can beat if you hit your draw) or set, not 2 pair.

Folding the river is probably best, I doubt it's the flush draw the way it was played. Even if it is a flush draw, is it Axs? Then you're beat anyway.