Hand from 'How Good is your Limit Hold'em'

[mack848]

I disagreed with the answer to this question and the reasoning behind it given. I'm interested to find out if it's just me. In general this book is very good IMO.

Players are generally loose. BB appears to only take notice of his own cards.

Hero has Q6o in SB.

4 limps, Hero calls, BB raises, 4 calls, Hero calls
(the author recommends folding to the raise, but continues the hand with Hero calling).

6 to the flop of Qh Qc 4h (12sb)

Question is, does Hero go for the check/raise, or bet - and why?

[hobbsmann]

c/r because you don't have to worry about hand protection, a c/r will get a ton of bets in and check raising the field is a great feeling.

Although a bet gives people odds to call, do you want to take the chance of it checking through?

On the other hand, you might be able to extract more money on the later streets...

I don't know.

I go for check raise and trap the field. If you bet, either BB just calls or raises and only hands like 4 to a flush stick around. I think it's worth the risk of it being checked through, although with BB thinking only of his hand it's unlikely he won't bet.

C/R

[avisco01]

I'd bet out. I don't think checkraising is a viable option as you'd be creating a situation where anyone with a flush draw will have the odds, and a pot equity edge, and your raise will obviously be called by anyone who already put one bet in there. I'd look to thin the field here myself, trying keeping the pot as SMALL as possible. I mean its tough, because anyone with a live flush draw will be getting correct odds to draw whether you bet or checkraise. Is my line of thinking wrong here?

[MisterKing]

Bet to protect your hand in this already large pot.

First, I hate calling pre-flop in the SB with Q6o, even for half a bet. I definitely fold when it is raised back to me.

On the flop, we know three things: 1.) BB likes his hand, 2.) BB appears to only take notice of what he is holding, and 3.) the pot is already very large.

Based on what we know, BB will likely bet if checked to, and raise if bet into. If we bet and he raises, the rest of the field will be getting about 7.5:1 on a call. Flush draws have the raw odds to take a shot, but you pretty much don't care, since you'll often outdraw them to a boat, and they'll often miss anyhow. Your equity on the flop is too huge not to jam. Moreover, getting someone to fold that has the equity to call is a coup, and it just might happen if you face the field with two cold.

If we check intending to C/R, and BB bets, he'll be offering all of the inbetween players an immediate 13:1, and when you C/R you will be offering them even better odds when it is back to them (since they only have to call one bet at a time). This means that some VERY weak draws can continue profitably. If the pot were smaller, I could see check/raising... but it isn't small in this hand.

Here's another thing: if someone else has the case Queen with a better kicker, you'll want to find out sooner rather than later. Making it two bets to them (as long as BB doesn't have a queen) is probably the best way to do so.


EDIT: I guess the opposing case might go like this: we can easily C/R the field on the flop, and since BB only pays attention to his hand and he likes it, we can probably bet into him on the turn and have him raise for us, really turning the heat up on the field and causing most hands to have to fold. Since no card can come on the turn that would make a straight, and we can't effectively bet the frush draws out on the flop, maybe the C/R followed by turndonk is the better path.

[krimson]

You go for a c/r to trap the field, given your position relative to the pre-flop raiser. If we bet, BB will often raise and we lose the field. If we check intending to raise, we often trap the field for lots of bets. This is pretty straightforward no?

edit: read the responses after posting, and see a lot of people wanting to protect our hand? Why? We are way ahead here, other than the rare time we're behind a bigger queen. There may be some 2-outers against us, but this is not enough reason imo to not be looking to extract as much value as possible. no risk, no reward.

[ayecappy]

I bet, the pot is big so youll likely get called in one or a few spots anyway. The read on the BB is pretty useless in this hand imo

[krimson]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd bet out. I don't think checkraising is a viable option as you'd be creating a situation where anyone with a flush draw will have the odds, and a pot equity edge, and your raise will obviously be called by anyone who already put one bet in there.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you lead the flop and it gets raised, all the flush draws still have correct odds to call. So really, all you have done is limit the people calling to those with significant draws against you, and got rid of hopeless hands who may have "peeled one off".