big mistake?

[C M Burns]

So I'm trying to figure out how big of a mistake I made here. I'll just post the hand now and give my explenation in another. So obviously since I lost there is only one thing that could beat me, so you have to say why u think this guy had that to get "points" This is party of course and it had been a wild night, but this particular guy plays pretty solid so I think not thinking of that is my bigest mistake. Also this was the last hand I was going to play before bed, I'm ready to fold and I see AK, so most of my mind had checked out.

***** Hand History for Game 162182511 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (NL) - Fri Sep 05 05:15:23 EDT 2003
Table Card Room Table 2243 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Bumblebeeman ( $248.30)
Seat 2: Xybernautica ( $279.25)
Seat 3: BlackJesus ( $182)
Seat 4: RezaNYC ( $247.20)
Seat 5: darreljanh ( $104.25)
Seat 6: klinteng ( $416.65)
Seat 7: Charles123 ( $105.75)
Seat 8: Novel ( $29.75)
Seat 9: fransfrans ( $92)
Seat 10: testing ( $98)
fransfrans posts small blind (1)
testing posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Bumblebeeman [ Ad, Ks ]
Bumblebeeman raises (4) to 4
Xybernautica folds.
BlackJesus folds.
RezaNYC folds.
darreljanh folds.
klinteng calls (4)
Charles123 folds.
Novel calls (4)
fransfrans raises (9) to 10
testing folds.
Bumblebeeman calls (6)
klinteng calls (6)
Novel calls (6)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Ah, 6s, 9s ]
fransfrans checks.
Bumblebeeman bets (40)
klinteng calls (40)
Novel folds.
fransfrans folds.
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 7s ]
Bumblebeeman checks.
klinteng bets (60)
Bumblebeeman calls (60)
** Dealing River ** : [ As ]
Bumblebeeman bets (138.30)
Bumblebeeman calls all-In.
klinteng calls (138.30)
Creating Main Pot with $515.60 with Bumblebeeman

[C M Burns]

Ok so here is my explenation of the last post(btw 1/2 blinds 100 buy in game). First I'll do what I was thinking in my half asleep state of mind, then what I think I should have thought. So AK ug, small raise to get callers, calling raise to 10 to see flop with 3 others, no problems yet. A flop w/ flush draw (Ah, 6s 9s). Betting the pot seems like the best thing, have top pair top kick, but flush draw wories me so want to win now. One caller, prob has flush draw maybe A. turn 7s, oh [censored] probably flush, even straight, better check, guy bets. hmmm, well I do have the king giving me a flush draw, does he have the nuts? could be betting any A? why only 1/2 pot, well guess worth a call, maybe the As will hit? riv As, yes, nut flush go all in.
Better thinking: through flop bet same...called then turn 7s, making Ah 6s 9s 7s, board. ok so pretty solid player why did he call the flop, flush draw likley, but he would prob have the A flush draw, straight unlikley, sf maybe. Trips, seems like he would have RR b/c of flush draw. reasons to fold: very likley have nut flush so I'm dead. Reasons to call: maybe Aq or lower flush, maybe betting weaker since I checked and it is only half the pot wouldn't a stronger hand just want to take it now, with such a big pot. So I may have the draw or best hand if he has Aq or w/As or even AK. And trips he probably would have RR.
So the turn I think is my only place to fold on this hand and I think that is the best play to make, there are reason to talk myself into a call but I think folding is the correct play, even though it hurts.
River: As board Ah 6s 9s 7s As, Thinking: nut flush, what beats me a full house, was he playing trips, posible but still think a RR on flop would have been better play with trips (is this true? )this means he wasn't playing the nut flush or drawing to it, so what could he have, low flush, AQ/K or FH. do I bet or check. If I check there is too much money to fold so if I am beat I'm going to lose either way, so might as well bet. but if I have the best hand I may missout by checking so I have to bet. So as I see it I had no other choice at the river, even though at the time I thought this is a mistake. So really the turn was my downfall. I should have realised this was a solid player who probably now had me beat even though it wasn't with the hand I was thinking. Who else would have made this mistake (keeping in mind that this is you last hand of the night and u are tired).

[C M Burns]

read me

[C M Burns]

If you tell me what you think of this one you'll get a pie!



fine print: Pie not a garantee.

[Ulysses]

One reason you're not getting responses is because you posted a hand history. See other posts for examples of how to post a hand in an easy to read manner.

As for your second post, I only got through a couple of sentences of the rambling post before I gave up. I suspect others have done the same.

[happyjaypee]

[ QUOTE ]
As for your second post, I only got through a couple of sentences of the rambling post before I gave up. I suspect others have done the same.

[/ QUOTE ]

yup, Use paragraphs, makes it easyer to read.


-Happy [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Jon Matthews]

I agree about the posting of hand histories...

but I'll just add 2 cents... I don't like the preflop min raise, if you want callers you would just limp don't you think? but in reality you don't want the type of callers that you get with limping or min raising with AK

when the other guy reraises, I think you need to reraise to isolate - as if you call, the other callers may feel they are getting the odds to play a mediocre starting hand to try and bust you

maybe with the reraise, 66, 77 or 99 may fold, thinking you have a bigger pair - here, that could save you a lot of heartache and i'm assuming that's what you let see a flop

Ax would also definitely have mucked, I don't feel you were up against that here, not sure though, maybe the 3rd player, again, felt he was getting the odds with A9?

Since you were UTG, limping is more of an option. If you did that, then calling the raise would be ok. The other limpers may feel it is ok to fold as it is only a blind they are throwing away, it's psychologically a lot easier to release the hand at this point. But if you raise, they are less likely to release and in that case, when met with a reraise you must also reraise IMHO.

I won't comment on the post flop play, I think the biggest mistakes were preflop.

[Copernicus]

Maybe its buried somewhere in the quagmire, but where is your consideration of a SF? Calling all along and waking up when the 7s hits might not raise alarms, but certainly a nagging concern, in which case you are drawing dead, and might be enough to make you fold on the turn.

Then the As hits, when youve already reasoned that he probably had that to justify his actions. Its almost an impossible lay down at that point, and I doubt I would be able to do it, but if it did come in SF I would be kicking myself for not listening to my own "read".

[KPhelps]

I haven't read farther down so pardon me if this has been touched apon.

I would have played the hand very differently from the onset, weather that means I would have made big mistakes or you did I'll let others deciede that.

Pre-flop: You min raise here is completely off the mark. You need to isolate here, with such a small raise your inviting players to sneak in with there big little suited, small pairs, and suited connectors in attempt to flop to something big, and perhaps beat you.

AK from early position I always raise 3-5x the big blind. This is my standard raise, and I make the same "range" of a raise with any hand I would play UTG.

Flop: You bet the size of the pot here, but I like to overbet when I hit nut pair, on a dangerous board in an attempt to win the pot right there. I would have bet 150% of the pot. It's a huge error for the flush draw to call there, and if I get a caller I'd probabably shut down.

The down side of the size bet you made, allowed a flush draw to sneak in and make a call. It would be an error on his part but might be justifiable if he thinks he can get you all in if he makes it.

On the turn when the guy fires you have no idea where you are. This is bad. He may very well have a flush, have a set or something like 78. The main reason you don't know is because of the size of your flop bet.

After the flop I probably would have played it the same way you did. Folding if the 4th spade doesn't come on the end he fires out at you.