Would you throw away Q/Q?

Delzek15 · #1 08-05-2005, 02:22 AM

I got stuck in two situations like this today with Q/Q and with K/K... Is there any possible way to get rid of it?

Absolute Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2.
2 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero (poster) 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Doc7 · #2 08-05-2005, 02:28 AM

i think the line looks good here. I might have thrown in another raise on the flop though, but i'd call if re-raised and then c/c the rest.

Shillx · #3 08-05-2005, 02:30 AM

I would check/call all the way here.

Brad

thesharpie · #4 08-05-2005, 02:32 AM

Did the convertor mess up or did you post UTG? And did you check your option the first time. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Delzek15 · #5 08-05-2005, 02:32 AM

I doubt very many of the players at 2/4 are what you would consider good.. But one question... Whats the point of calling the turn bet just to fold to a river one?

baronzeus · #6 08-05-2005, 02:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would check/call all the way here. Against a very good player who had no line on me I would check/fold the river.

Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with c/f on the river. There's a chance he's firing again with AKs or AKo here to try and take it down.

If you're gonna fold anywhere it should be on the flop. Villain's range is AK, AA, KK, QQ, JJ I think. Not saying I'd do it, but you might consider it.

baronzeus · #7 08-05-2005, 02:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt very many of the players at 2/4 are what you would consider good.. But one question... Whats the point of calling the turn bet just to fold to a river one?

[/ QUOTE ]

The only reason you'd do this is if CO would check behind UI on the river with AK and bet with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, but even then, you're ahead of JJ and spitting with QQ enough to call.

TomBrooks · #8 08-05-2005, 02:36 AM

I don't think you can let that go, especially since CO may have been stealing the blinds with a pretty good but not great hand. Maybe he thought you were trying to come over the top of him with a good but not great hand. Villian capping preflop with AK to AT, JJ and TT all seem possible HU in a steal position. I don't think you have to worry about JT for a straight, but 99, 88, and 77 also seem possible also which would be bad news as those pairs would give Villian a set.

I think you have to play it the way you did.

Shillx · #9 08-05-2005, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt very many of the players at 2/4 are what you would consider good.. But one question... Whats the point of calling the turn bet just to fold to a river one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I didn't read the board properly here. The general idea behind the check/call,check/call,check/fold line is that the villian would never bet a worse hand again on the river. It doesn't usually work very well with QQ since there are tons of hands that could value bet. Let me give you a better example.

Some dude raises preflop, I 3-bet with TT and he caps.

Flop: 952 Check/call
Turn: 6 Check/call
River: 4

I should now check/fold against a good player who has no read on me. Why? He isn't going to bet AK or AQ again since he figures that only a better hand will call (but he will bet AA-99 again so I'm losing 100% of the time I call barring a chop). He also thinks that I'm not folding a pair in this spot either since I called all the way (which is why I mention that he has no read on me). If he has a read on me that I will fold TT here then you have to payoff obviously.

Brad

I also forgot to add that bet-calling this flop is terrible. If he would only raise a better hand then you should check/call since he will bet AK when you check to him (and you can't always bet-fold since he might have QQ or JJ or TT). If he would raise a hand like AK on this flop then you should bet-3bet for value since there are more ways to hold AK (or JJ or TT) then AA+KK.

Delzek15 · #10 08-05-2005, 02:44 AM

Hmmm... I never thought about that. Thanks for the detailed explanation, I understand now what you mean't and what certain situations you would use that in.